S3 Episode 2 - Mercury Starving Jupiter and “The Voice” Referendum

Mercury starving Jupiter and the Voice Referendum in Australia 14 October 2023

[00:00:00] Introduction and Welcome

[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hello, everyone. Welcome to "The Vedic Astrology Podcast". My name is Fiona Marques. I'm very happy to be here with you again, beginning a season of podcast episodes exploring Mercury and Jupiter. So there are several episodes in the pipeline looking at these two really important manifesting planets. You might remember when we talked last time about the eclipse coming up on the 14th of October, we shared about Kala bala and how Mercury receives automatically 60 points in one category in Kala bala and Jupiter automatically receives 60 points in another category in Kala bala. So we already flagged how important Jupiter and Mercury are to time, being in the right time in the right place, and they are manifesting planets.

One of the reasons for that might be because of their scores in Kala bala. Also because they rule those mutable signs Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces. And Jupiter rules all of these opportunities. And opportunities are very important for manifesting things. That makes sense. And Mercury manifests through managing. It turns ideas into concrete reality by breaking them down and understanding what each step is and then being attentive to complete those steps. They are often also seen as teacher and student. So they have a relationship already in the court of the planets.

And over the next several episodes, we're going to be exploring them. We're going to be talking to an author about Jupiter and Mercury and how significant they were in the creation of their book. And we're also going to be exploring the mythology of Jupiter and Mercury with Nisha Sankaran. Continuing our series on Vedic planetary mythology.

And today we have a case study about Jupiter and Mercury involving the referendum that is taking place in Australia on the 14th of October, on the very date of the eclipse. That came up at the end of our eclipse episode last time and I couldn't resist investigating it more. So I'm back with you today to share all about the context of that referendum, look at the significant roles that Jupiter and Mercury are playing and the impact of Mercury starving Jupiter. So if you are interested in Lajjitaadi Avashtas. Or, you want to know about this particular Lajjitaadiya Avastha? That's what we're going to dig into today. As well as looking at humanity when it comes, for example, from a Mercury paradigm, and when it comes from a Jupiter paradigm. We're going to use Spiral Dynamics as a way to examine, perhaps, a continuum of human leadership maturity and have a look at what that paradigm is like from different planets points of view. And specifically from Mercury and Jupiter. if you're interested in organizational change or social change, our episode today is a case study and discussion about those biggest visions and those expansive philosophical inspiring visions that we would associate with Jupiter and how do they match up with the day to day reality of managing an economy and the cost of living and interest rate rises that perhaps we might attribute more to a Mercury mentality. So I hope you will join me as we explore the effects of Mercury starving Jupiter in the context of "The Voice" Referendum this 14th of October 2023.

[00:04:06] Context of the Case Study

[00:04:06] Fiona Marques: A referendum is what Australia does when it wants to change its Constitution. And the Constitution is the foundational framework of the nation of Australia. It can only be changed by a referendum in which more than half of the states of Australia vote "Yes" to the change and at the same time more than half the population of Australia vote for the change as well. So it's quite a high bar to make a change to the Constitution. It's very much about the people of Australia making changes. That's the only way that the Constitution can change. Whereas legislation is something that the government of the day can introduce and pass, and it's quite a common thing that during the lifetime of a parliament, many pieces of legislation are passed and many laws are changed. However, the Constitution is not something like that. It's quite rare to make a change to it and that change has to come from the people, it can't come from just their representatives who are elected and are in parliament.

And this particular referendum is about adding a voice for Indigenous Australians directly to have their voice heard by the people who are in power in Australia. And the reason for wanting to make that change is because in the past relationships with Indigenous Australians have been subject to legislation, which means that they change all the time and different governments can change them without consulting the people of Australia.

Through a consultative process in 2017 there was a document created that outlined a pathway to moving forward in the relationship between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians. And just like many other countries in the world where colonization has happened, colonization can leave very deep trauma and very unresolved problems that take generations and that for many countries are still ongoing and still working to be resolved. And this is the case in Australia too.

And this statement that was published in 2017 outlines a vision and a pathway forward, and one part of that statement is the requirement for a change to the Constitution.

The statement is called "The Uluru Statement from the Heart". It was created through consultation at the grassroots level, culminating in this event in 2017 when a finalised set of wording was presented in a beautiful piece of artwork.

And that statement says the following...

"We, gathered at the 2017 National Constitutional Convention, coming from all points of the southern sky, make this statement from the heart. Our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander tribes were the first sovereign nations of the Australian continent and its adjacent islands and possessed it under our own laws and customs.

This, our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the creation. According to the common law from time immemorial and according to science more than 60, 000 years ago. This sovereignty is spiritual notion. The ancestral tie between the land or mother nature and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born there from remain attached thereto and must one day return thither to be united with our ancestors.

This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty. It has never been ceded or extinguished, and coexists with the sovereignty of the crown. How could it be otherwise? That peoples possessed of a land for sixty millennia, and this sacred link disappears from world history in merely the last two hundred years?

With substantive Constitutional change and structural reform, we believe this ancient sovereignty can shine as a fuller expression of Australia's nationhood.

Proportionally, we are the most incarcerated people on the planet. We are not an innately criminal people. Our children are alienated from their families at unprecedented rates. This cannot be because we have no love for them. And our youth languish in detention centres in obscene numbers. They should be our hope for the future.

These dimensions of our crisis tell plainly the structural nature of our problem. This is the torment of our powerlessness.

We seek Constitutional reforms to empower our people to take a rightful place in our own country. When we have power over our destiny, our children will flourish. They will walk in two worlds and their culture will be a gift to their country.

We call for the establishment of a First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution. Makarrata is the culmination of our agenda. This coming together after a struggle. It captures our aspirations for a fair and truthful relationship with the people of Australia and a better future for our children based on justice and self determination. We seek a Makarrata Commission to supervise the process of agreement making between governments and First Nations and truth telling about our history.

In 1967, we were counted. In 2017, we seek to be heard. We leave Basecamp and start our trek across this vast country. We invite you to walk with us in a movement of the Australian people for a better future".

Now, some years have passed and the government of the day has proposed that a referendum be held to take that one action that's mentioned in the statement, which is to make a change to the Constitution to have a permanent Voice of First Nations people to the Parliament.

As you were listening to that statement, I wonder if you heard some concepts that reminded you of particular planets. And I certainly picked up in there a very Jupiter kind of energy. A very compassionate. And understanding energy, looking for big picture and structural change and with its vision and aim on an auspicious outcome. Something of trust for everyone, "a fair and truthful relationship".

It makes me think about how different planets approach conflict and adversity.

[00:12:14] The Conquering Mindset

[00:12:14] Fiona Marques: The context of this makes me think about colonization in general. That I come from a culture, an Anglo Saxon or a European culture that had a practice of conquering, that was the methodology to gain more wealth. And it was a practice that, at that time in history, to that culture seemed perfectly appropriate. To go around taking land and taking the resources from that land in order to expand power and influence.

So Australia was in inverted commas, discovered in 1788. And from that period of time, British colonies were set up. And Australia, it turns out, is an incredibly rich country in natural resources. And the government of Australia has used the resources of the country to create a lot of wealth. So a lot of mining and exporting of natural resources. However, this whole, the whole foundation of that approach is a little bit this conquering mindset.

And it just goes to show how different perspectives are because when I started researching this episode I put "Conquest Mentality" or "Conquering Mentality" into Google assuming that it would be a bit fraught with danger, that topic in the same way that colonization is something that, if I put that into Google, I would get a whole lot of, complex and difficult answers about colonization.

But it turns out that actually a "Conquering Mindset" is seen as something that's good. So it just goes to show that people do have different mindsets and do think that being a "Conqueror" is much better than being a "Victim". So I was surprised that we still think that conquering is a good thing.

But I think that we can all reflect that conquering has a bit of a flaw in that it requires violence to, to perpetrate it, and then it needs quite a lot of energy to subjugate the people that have been conquered, and that can take a lot of time. So often, whoever it is that went out and colonized, they were a minority of the actual number of people who were in this inverted commas "new" place. And with this small minority the conquering people, needed to suppress the existing people. And that's a really big commitment.

And there's a bit of treachery in the whole conquering or colonizing thing, in that colonizing is a little bit like going to someone's home, and when one, in the case of Australia, when one finds that the home is very large and the particular door or window that you approach there's no one there at that exact moment and therefore declaring that this home and house therefore is mine or my king's. And then proceeding to use that home in whatever way fit as the conquering person, the person who arrived to a, inverted commas, "empty" home. So you might steal and plunder things and you certainly might treat the belongings with a lack of respect. Or especially would not have any cultural sensitivity to recognize which elements of the home had a sacred purpose for the people who actually were living there before, before you knocked on the door or came in the window.

And then in the case of Australia, at some point the colonizers did find, in fact, that there were people living in the home and decided that they were not people from that perspective at the time. From that European perspective, they didn't appear to be civilized, and so that gave permission to treat these owners as subhuman and for better or worse treat them like animals. I don't know why it is that we treat animals less than humans. But anyway. And this goes on and on over time because it turns out that there are many people living in this house that "I've declared to be mine. And I continually need to remove those people, often by killing them, to uphold this idea that the place is empty and it's mine and I can use it for what I want".

And so there's a period of time where when one conquers something, like when one moves into a house that already exists, there's a lot of violence that goes on in taking over that house. And then as those decades and decades go by, and then a hundred years go by, and then two hundred years go by, although Western European culture and Anglo Saxon culture has evolved and got more awareness it's still in some ways in this position of conqueror that because of the treachery of the situation and almost the original lie that there was nobody here when we got here". Then these people that came to colonize can't really, with their hand on their heart, feel good about what they've done even if they didn't do it. And we're talking now about a cultural legacy but that is still, the ripples of that, the trauma of that, is still affecting the sense of goodness of the people.

[00:18:44] Jupiter and Mercury

[00:18:44] Fiona Marques: This is where I think this referendum is so interesting, if we want to examine Jupiter and Mercury. Because Jupiter is the great benefic in Vedic Astrology, and it's a very spiritual planet. And in fact, in the research for the Vedic Astrology myths, Jupiter is the teacher of the gods. Even those planets that we've already explored in Vedic Astrology, mythology, the Sun, the Moon and Mars, they are receiving their wisdom through Jupiter.

So Jupiter's kind of got even more knowledge and dharmic wisdom than these big planets like Sun and Moon and Mars. Jupiter is that wise because Jupiter's heart is completely clean and open and pure. That's where wisdom and the intellect is residing. In the heart. That's why Jupiter is so compassionate and so abundant is because that heart energy is so clear. There's no guilty conscience. And there's no self rejecting or hiding the truth of the self because Jupiter really only functions completely open heartedly.

And here we have, in fact, a "Statement from the Heart". So it seems very appropriate. And yet, at the same time, for the culture that committed the treachery, there is this knowledge in the heart center that "My ancestors were capable of this treachery". And that there's still some discomfort about that. So I think this is a really great planetary energy case study.

[00:20:48] Spiral Dynamics and the planets of Vedic Astrology

[00:20:48] Fiona Marques: So let's have a look then at models that could help us understand how humans develop in maturity. All models are just a way of thinking about something. They're never quite 100 percent accurate. They're certainly not 100 percent scientific. But they help us to zoom out and see a big picture.

For the purposes of exploring this dynamic around maturity and our relationship with other humans, I think that Spiral Dynamics is a good place to look. And Spiral Dynamics is a model that sets out different levels that we might be operating at and what behaviors and milestones might go with each level.

It outlines eight stages.

The very first level is called the "Instinctive Self", and it's about survival. Then the next layer is a "Magical Animalistic Self" and that we can associate with tribal order.

The third spiral is the red "Impulsive Self" and its feudal and exploitative empires. Following that, there is a "Rule/Role Self", and we can equate that to nation states and authoritarian regimes. Then, the next stage outlined is an "Achiever Self", which is capitalistic democracies. They estimate starting about 300 years ago. "Acting in your own self interest and playing a game to win".

And then another layer after that is the "Sensitive Self". This is social democracies. Information sharing democracies. They began about 150 years ago.

And then, there are two other stages to outline. A yellow, "Integral Self", which is a world centric view, estimated at starting 50 years ago. And the tagline is, "Live fully and responsibly as what you are and learn to become". And the eighth layer is a turquoise "Holistic Self", perhaps starting 30 years ago, collective individualism, "Experience the wholeness of existence through mind and spirit".

We have a look at this continuum. I think that it's helpful to put colonization in its place or to put this idea of conquering in its place. And notice that it obviously comes with a lot of advantages, which is that you get land and you get resources and from that you get power. We can see why it was attractive. But we can also see that it has a high price to pay. There's a lot of energy required to subjugate others, and it really is an "us and them" type of situation. The whole aim, ideal of colonization is not necessarily to be equal with the people of the place that you colonize. It's to exploit the opportunities that are presented by this unique piece of planet Earth. And so I think we can see that in some ways it's got that "feudal and exploitative kind of empire" thing to it. So that would be the red level.Maybe it moves all red, blue, orange, all through from the "Impulsive Self", to the "Rule and Role Self", to the "Achiever Self". And that originally it was culturally okay, from where Westerners came from, to colonize places. In the case of Australia, at some point over the last 250 years, there's been discomfort with that, and there have been various changes. Originally there was just killing people that were not colonizers. And then there was a a real attempt to breed out people who were not colonizers. And then there has been recognition. As we saw in the Statement of the Heart, in 1967 actually Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders were counted as Australian citizens for the first time. And that's shocking in itself, however it does speak to a movement through this continuum, that there does seem to be an evolution in that coloniser mentality has now seemed to, to move and perhaps is in this orange state of capitalistic democracies "Acting in your own self interest and playing the game to win".

When we have a look at this diagram from another perspective we can see that there's a key word that goes with each level. So the first level around "protection". " Our Focus is on the maintenance of in group relationships that provide certainty, warmth, protection, support, and guidance". And the key word is "safety". Whenever I see that keyword safety, it makes me think of Saturn. So we could maybe imagine Saturn's really important for survival.

The level above that is red and it's "control". "The emphasis is on energy, power and beating the competition. Sometimes there are high levels of internal competition and the key word is power". So that makes me think about Mars, that wonderful energy that we spoke about in the podcast, the energy to act, fantastic and really powerful self preservation.

And then the layer next to that one is blue, and it's called "conformity". "The organization values order, stability, and obeying rightful authority, rules, and regulations. The focus is on the task, not the person". The key word is truth. And this makes me think about the Sun, because of those words stability, obeying and order.There's something energetically about respecting authority that speaks to me there about the Sun.

The following layer orange the key word is "prosperity". The statement says "Achievement. In this culture, success and results are all important. The focus is on being entrepreneurial, pragmatic and doing whatever it takes to get the job done". Like Mercury, that it's a game and we want to achieve and we want to be entrepreneurial and pragmatic which are qualities that sometimes we can see with Mercury.

And then we have the following layer, "relationship". "A culture that is focused on building a community that is tolerant and accepting of differences and diversities, emphasizes sharing and caring for others". The key word "communitarian". Makes me think of Venus, all of this harmonizing, sharing, caring for others, tolerance, acceptance.

And then yellow, the keyword is "systemic". And the statement says "Learning. The focus of this culture is on self development, learning, applying knowledge and change. And the organization is generally agile and with a clear direction".

And finally, turquoise, the keyword is "holistic". "Experience. This is global thinking, culture, which takes an interconnected view of working, living and the environment".

[00:28:53] Australia and Spiral Dynamics

[00:28:53] Fiona Marques: When we reflect on the wording of"The Uluru Statement from the Heart", so much of that wording seems to me that it comes from this yellow or turquoise level, the "systemic" or "holistic" level.

"These dimensions of our crisis tell plainly the structural nature of our problem". So I think that speaks to that systemic level of the Spiral Dynamics model. And then also there's the vision around a "coming together after the struggle".

It is the "aspirations of a fair and truthful relationship with the people of Australia and a better future for our children based on justice and self determination". Then there was "Our children will walk in two worlds and their culture will be a gift to their country".

So many of the statements from that "Uluru Statement of the Heart" to me speak as if they are at that end of that continuum where they are interested in those worldviews and interconnectedness, sustainable living with your environment. It just seems that they're really operating from that learning and experience level of Spiral Dynamics. And it strikes me that's a very Jupiter thing. Ayana Bala is the approach that a planet takes to conflict resolution and and adversity If we talk about how Jupiter when it's high in Ayana Bala it uses its ability to see the big picture. Jupiter is expansive, it provides opportunities, and it's wisdom comes from the heart. And the heart is this ultimate organ that accepts everything, right? The heart has no front door or lock on it. The blood comes in, the blood goes out, whatever is in the blood is accepted. Whatever is in the level of oxygenation of the blood, it's all accepted into the heart center. So I think we have this real Jupiter energy in "The Uluru Statement of the Heart".

And then perhaps we have in the Australian culture somewhere in that kind of in between the the "prosperity" level, the orange prosperity level, and the "communitarian".

I do think that Australia's mainstream culture, from its beginning in terms of colonization, which, we think would be like a "power" kind of move, so we're in that red level. Australia has evolved and is evolving and is somewhere now in between "prosperity", which is, we want to be entrepreneurial, we want to focus on success and winning and be pragmatic. Somewhere in between that and a culture that is focused on being tolerant and accepting of difference and diversity and emphasizing sharing and caring for others. I think that is aspirationally where Australia would like to be. And Australia is largely a country that is made up of migrants, including the first colonizers. So it does accept a lot of people or it has accepted a lot of people over time. But for anybody who have tried to move to Australia, or even work as a tourist in Australia, you will know that is quite difficult, and we get down to the blue level of "conformity", we want value and order, and you have to have all of your correct paperwork, and your correct amount of money in your bank account, and your sponsors, and the work that you're going to. We might emphasize sharing and caring for others but having originally been a penal colony, I had some friends want to move to Australia to live and work and they felt like Australia was now a reverse prison. It was very hard to get into.

However, I do think that aspirationally Australian culture continues to move through these Spiral Dynamics.

[00:33:03] Jupiter starved by Mercury Lajjitaadi Avastha

[00:33:03] Fiona Marques: But perhaps what we're really seeing is the difference between these planetary energies. So if we look at that "prosperity" level, which I was equating to Mercury. And we know that in Vedic Astrology that Mercury is an enemy to Jupiter. So we know that Mercury energy can interfere with that abundant mentality that Jupiter has.

And to put that in context, let's have a little look at what's happened to the polling for this referendum question. If we look at the Wikipedia page for the "Opinion polling for the 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice Referendum", it outlines the context of the referendum and then it aggregates the polling and also has a breakdown of all the major polling that has occurred in relation to this referendum question. So it's quite comprehensive.

For those listening, there is a graph of all of the major polls, each plotted as an individual dot, and then the trend line is drawn for the "Yes" and the "No". And very clearly this graph demonstrates that way back more than a year ago the polls were very much in the "Yes" favour for making a change to the Constitution, up as high as, say, around 70 percent "Yes" and 30 percent "No", something in that kind of ballpark.

But then as we've gotten closer and closer to the question, and particularly by the middle of July this year, we've reached a crossover point where now the "No" line is clearly got more respondents saying that they will be voting "No" to the change, and the "Yes" line has got less respondents saying that they're going to be saying "Yes".

This is very interesting to look at what is it that has changed in the mentality. And of course, loads of things change, and people are very complex, and there's lots of things going on. But let's use this trend to try to examine what might be happening in the referendum question.

Let's do that by turning our attention to the astrology charts that might help us out here. Now, Australia was created by an act of legislation and it was agreed that the Federation of Australia would come into being on the 1st of January 1901. However, we don't have really a birth time. In one way, we could say that the birth time is midnight. The very beginning of the day, the 1st of the 1st, 1901. And if we were to do that we would get a Libra Ascendant Chart. However, the Prime Minister of Australia was sworn in by the Governor General on the day of the 1st. I could not find a time, but I could find some archival footage. And it very much seemed to be the sun was high in the sky in the middle of the day. So I have decided to go with 12 o'clock, noon. And that gives me an Aries Ascendant. This is all up for debate, but I'm telling you my rationale.

An Aries Ascendant. And this is very nice because Australia is such a resource country that perhaps that idea of Mars ascendant and the minerals that are under the earth, I think that has a synergy with the nation of Australia.

And, in fact, as we go around the planets, there are no planets in Aries, but the Moon is in Taurus. And we all know that the Moon is very happy in Taurus. In this case, it's in its Moolatrikona sign. It is not in those first few degrees, so it's not exalted, but it is in Moolitrakona. And I also think that having a very well situated planet in the second house of resources seems like a good description of Australia. And in this chart, if it was an Aries Ascendant, the Moon is ruling the fourth house of the home and resources as well. That kind of seems nice. Ketu is in Gemini, in the third house. And then there are no planets in Cancer, no planets in Leo, Mars is in Virgo, the 6th house. No planets in Libra, no planets in Scorpio, and then many planets in the 9th house of Sagittarius. We have Rahu, Venus, Jupiter and Mercury. And then in Capricorn we have Saturn and the Sun conjunct. They are just over two degrees apart from each other, so a very tight conjunction there. And no planets in Aquarius and no planets in Pisces.

What some of the things that this chart might tell us, although you must remember that we have to take the house numbers with a pinch of salt because we don't know the birth time. I think that looking at an Aries ascendant with Mars in the sixth house tells us that this is a very hard working country and that this is a country that is prepared to take action and work hard in an Earth sign.

So it all fits in with that theme that we already talked about, the Earth. We've got the Moon in an Earth sign, Mars in an Earth sign, and we've got Saturn and the Sun both in an Earth sign. So a very Earth based chart.

I think another thing that is interesting as well is the relationship between Saturn and the Sun. When I talk about Australia, I often feel that Saturn represents the Indigenous people, and I think it's quite telling that that Indigenous people if they're represented by Saturn, are co located with the Sun which is the traditional symbol for the king. And literally, when this country was federated, it was Queen Victoria who signed that piece of paper.

There is definitely a relationship between the king and the native people. And we will notice that this is a difficult Lajjitaadi Avashta. It is an agitated and starved Lajjitaadi Avashta. Both the Sun is getting damaged and Saturn is getting damaged. Interestingly, in some ways, the Sun is getting double damaged because it's in an enemy sign and it's with its enemy. Quite a lot for the Sun there. And when we have Sun and Saturn, Lajjitaadi Avastha, this starvation and agitation, it really is a power struggle, isn't it, about identity and about respect and really it can call into question the person's entire existence swinging wildly between being may be arrogant and righteous to also feeling traumatized and distraught that no matter what one does, it can never be recognized. So it can be quite a challenging Lajjitaadi Avastha. When I speak with clients about it I sometimes use that analogy of Harry Potter and Voldemort, being locked into this death spiral that neither one of them can exist while the other one exists. And that makes them actually better.Voldemortbecomes better and Harry Potter becomes better. So it's a very intense and traumatic experience of power and restraint that is going to make the person very good at whatever it is that they need to do in that particular area of life, because it's like a fight to the death.

And of course we notice in the ninth house of culture, we have these four planets. We've got Rahu, Venus, Jupiter, and Mercury. And the thing that I want to point out there is that Jupiter is getting starved by both Mercury and Jupiter. But I want to read what it feels like when Jupiter is starved by Mercury.

This is from "The Art and Science of Vedic Astrology, Volume 2", by Ryan Kurczak. "When Mercury primarily starves Jupiter, the native has a tendency to overanalyze everything and has a need to look at all the research before making a decision. If the choice made results in a good situation, the native will assert that the research was enough and will claim success for their personality.

If the choice made turns out to give bad results, they will assert that they didn't have enough information or they were lied to. This is counter to Jupiter, that would accept the good and bad results without judgement ...

Mercury influencing Jupiter can also cause us to mismanage or overmanage financial and monetary issues. They are not able to enjoy their wealth because they are too busy focusing on it".

Mercury can make us feel that we've been lied to, and we can blame other people for not giving us all the correct information. And it really interferes with Jupiter's natural sense of abundance and opportunity. It's expansive, and it just knows that all is well and all is good. And from that place of expansive, goodness, it then looks out on life and it doesn't get worried about if one particular decision is going this way or that way, because it knows in the big picture that everything is happening exactly as it should.

And Mercury turns that into a doubt. And through that doubt, little by little, Jupiter's optimism and goodwill and good humour is eaten away and the person has this sense of wanting more and more information.

And so that's quite strong in this birth chart because they are very close together. Jupiter's at 25º58' and Mercury's at 27º48'. So we can say that in something in the creation of Australia was this dynamic, this Lajjitaadi Avastha of Mercury starving Jupiter. Was creating a doubt in the goodness, a doubt in trust. "I need more information and people might be lying to me and I have to find out all that I can".

So I think this is very interesting in the context of the referendum question because

there was generally a lot of support for the "Yes" question. And then by the middle of July, that had really dropped and now swapped over to a rising and the "No" vote rising more and more.

And I think there are two Mercury factors that come into this change.

One of the really effective strategies of the "No" campaign was to come up with this slogan, "If you don't know, vote No". And this is in their official pamphlet for explaining the "Yes" vote and the "No" vote.And the first two subtitles were "Risky" and "Unknown". This plays beautifully into that Jupiter starved by Mercury.

So if as an Australian you're feeling generous Jupiter. You're feeling open hearted but you're unsure, then this question begins to, if "I don't know I should vote No", it begins to really work on that Mercury starving Jupiter that is in the birth chart of the Australian Federation.

So we have a strong starvation of Jupiter by Mercury, and then we can see how this is playing in the psyche of this referendum vote.

Now, what about if we go have a look at the actual "Voice" referendum itself? So let's imagine the closing of the polling stations, and that will be at 6 p. m. on the 14th of October. I'm wondering if we see that on that day, we also have a strong starvation from Mercury to Jupiter.

And sure enough, on that day,if you look at the planetary aspects, you can call it 47 points out of 60. That is the aspect that Mercury is giving to Jupiter.

This sense of doubt seems to be not just in the birth chart, but it's also in the chart of the day itself. And this made me think about why the referendum was called at this time, and how has the Mercury aspect been travelling during the year.

I went and looked at the aspects for the whole year and just wrote down what Mercury's aspect to Jupiter was for the whole year. At the start of the year, Mercury's aspect was around, 23, and all the way up to the end of the first month of the year, it got to about 40 degrees of aspect. And then gradually it declined until at the very beginning of March there was no aspect from Mercury to Jupiter. And it was, in fact, around about this time that on the 23rd of March that the government announced it was going to go ahead with a referendum this year. It announced what the question was going to be. And then there was a period of a lot of no aspect from Mercury.

Now, it depends on how you count these things, and astrologers have different ways of counting them. Because sometimes Mercury was conjunct, so you might want to count that as aspect. But there was a long period where there was no aspect. When the date was set at the end of August, Mercury had been quite high,

about thirty three points. And just as it was beginning to drop down again is when the government announcedthe date will be the 14th of October. So perhaps there was a sense that was beginning to recede, but then unbeknownst probably to the Australian government or to the "Yes" campaign, then there has been a big escalation in the aspect of Mercury to Jupiter, so that it is working its way up into the 40s, and by the time we get to the referendum, it will be at the mid 40s 46, 47 aspectual points.

The timing of this referendum has unfortunately coincided with, when by transit, just in the sky, not into the birth chart of Australia, just into everybody's Jupiter, Mercury is sending more planetary aspect towards Jupiter. More than normal, right? It's in the 40s, or it will be in the 40s by the time Australia votes.

And I think that this speaks to how effectively doubt can be used to affect that goodwill that Jupiter may have had.

Another factor to keep in mind is the cost of living crisis that is happening in many countries across the world. That perhaps Australians, like many people, are feeling less optimistic and less generous about their financial situation because interest rates have been rising.

And this also plays into the dynamic of Mercury starving Jupiter and creating that sort of penny pinching lack of faith and feeling like "I have to watch every last cent that I'm spending". So the idea of doing something, a big grand change like this, that might have financial implications seems like a risky thing to do.

Now it's also interesting to look at when that polling sort of crossover point happened and it was in the middle of July. So it's marked on the chart here. And it's just as Mercury began to increase its aspects to Jupiter. And on the following slide, I have tried to line up these two charts with each other. Of course, they come from different time periods because the Wikipedia chart goes all the way back to August 22. The Excel chart that I created today just started in January. We're a little bit matching, apples and oranges. But we can see that this point where the opinion polls swapped was definitely a time when Mercury's aspect was rising to Jupiter.

So I think it lets us know that really playing on the mind of Australians is the worries and the doubts that come with Mercury starvation.

[00:51:26] Predicting the result

[00:51:26] Fiona Marques: That leaves us with a few more avenues.

Let's have a look at

the chart of the closing of the polls of this voice referendum. That will be on the 14th of October 2023 at 6pm is when they close and I put in the capital city of Australia Of course Australia is a country that spans several time zones but all the polls close at six o'clock local time.

And what will be going on astrologically at that time? Here we have an Aries ascendant, perhaps just like we had in the Australia chart.

So an Aries rising with a Rahu in Aries. And then in Taurus we have Jupiter and Uranus. No planets in Gemini, nothing in Cancer, nothing in Leo. And then Venus is in Virgo, where it's at 4º37', so it is debilitated there in Virgo. And then in Libra we have Ketu, Sun, Mercury and Moon. And as we know, this is the space of the ecliptic, the part of the ecliptic where the eclipse is going to take place in just a few hours after the closing of the polls. So you can see the Sun is at 20 degrees and 40 minutes and the Moon at this particular moment in time at the closing of the polls is at 14º38'. So it is on its way to meet up with the Sun and create that annular solar eclipse that will be visible in the Americas. And then in Scorpio, the 30 degrees of the ecliptic right next to Libra, we have Mars just at the very beginning. So in some ways we consider Mars to be part of this eclipse as well, because it's at 1 degree and 26 minutes. Then, no planets in Sagittarius. Pluto is at the last degrees of Capricorn, no planets in Aquarius, and then Saturn is at just about one degree of Pisces, and Neptune is also in Pisces. So that is the lay of the land, or the lay of the stars, of this particular moment.

As we already discussed, we can notice that Mercury is sending its aspect to Jupiter. So we've already talked about the fact that at this particular period of time, in the transiting sky, we will be experiencing Mercury sending those aspects to Jupiter, and we talked already about doubting people's intention and wanting to have more data. So that is certainly taking place.

And what can we tell from this chart? And this is one of those things where when we are looking into the future, it is always great to be objective. And that's the great challenge of being an astrologer, is to just stick to the data. In this case, obviously, as an Australian, I already have an opinion and it's more difficult for me to be objective. But let's just see if we can count the data points that we can notice and almost keep a tally on whether it looks like a "Yes" vote or a "No" vote.

So one of the things that strikes us straight away is that the ascendant is taking place in a cardinal sign. It's taking place in Aries. And cardinal signs had that reputation of starting something, of moving, of being action places. If we see it in a prasna, we would think that this is a sign that is supportive of change. So we can notice that.

And we can also notice that the Aries part of the ecliptic is associated with new initiatives and starting something. It is the beginning of Spring when the Sun moves through Aries, so it's the beginning of the new year. So we can notice that there's a couple of indications there for change if we just look at Aries and the rising sign.

We can also notice that we have a malefic on the Ascendant.If I was the astrologer choosing the date for this referendum and I wanted a "Yes" vote, perhaps I would not want a malefic on the Ascendant. So we could put that in the "No" column. But we must notice that Rahu is unexpected and hard to predict and is heading in the direction of our evolution. Even if we don't really know what that is. And we don't really know why we're going there and we're just fascinated and magnetically drawn towards that.

So Malefic on the ascendant is perhaps Indicator for "No". But that the malefic is Rahu is a bit of a wild card,could go either way. So these are the first couple of tallies in our score sheet.

Then there are some other things that come to mind. The first one is that Mars is the ruler of Aries, and it is in its own home in Scorpio. So the, at the time when the polls close, the planet that rules the rising sign is in a good position in the sky. However it is the 8th house. And the 8th house is again, if one was doing a muhurta or trying to pick a date, perhaps we don't want a malefic on the 8th But, in this case, this is the Ascendant Lord of the Chart, and the eighth is changes. Sudden Breaks and Changes, Unexpected Changes. We have a a mark in both columns there, that potentially, it is unfortunate to have a malefic in the eighth, but at the same time, this is the Ascendant Lord and we are looking for an unexpected change. If we wanted a "Yes" vote, we're looking for an unexpected change because the polls seem to be indicating a "No" vote. Maybe that has a tick in each column.

Then, of course, with Venus being in the sixth house of Virgo and being debilitated is perhaps, again, a mark in the "No" column. Because Venus is what leads us to higher fulfillment. It's exalted in Pisces, where it is transformational. And in this case, perhaps being debilitated means not being led to higher fulfillment. And being in an earth sign, perhaps wanting security and maybe managing our resources, making decisions about our resources, and being very particular about those in that Virgo space. Perhaps Venus maybe is a tick in the "No" column. It is ruling the second and the seventh so it's also ruling a house of resources and a house of business. Maybe it's indicating that fear around the mercantile consequences of this decision and choosing to stick with their feet on the ground in Virgo

And then we have Saturn in Pisces. And we talked about Saturn perhaps being the Indigenous people of Australia. And Saturn is in the first degrees of Pisces, and it's the twelfth house of this chart at the time that the polls close. Again, this is for me something that could go a tick in each column. That it is the Twelfth House is Losses, so seeing the native people in the House of Loss looks like a no. However, it is also a transcendent part of the ecliptic. And it is where we transcend. So is it possibly an indicator to show a transformation in the relationship? Now, that's maybe a reach, and that kind of then reveals the subjectivity of the astrologer. Because wouldn't we like to see that Saturn exalted in the 10th house? Or in its own home in the 10th house? This is not the ideal placement. However could it be that being in Pisces is a good sign?

So then that just brings us to the eclipse. And this is harder to read because there are many planets involved and there's a couple of layers to look at here. We know that the Moon is going to eclipse the Sun and we know that the Sun is governments, and it's the king. And the Moon is the people, or can be the populace.

So in that way, it is a sign that the populace is going to overcome the king. But, we need to really ask ourselves, What the king is there? So if it was literally the king of England, this would seem like the populace is overcoming the king. So who is a vote for a republic, maybe we would think that this was a change.

But if the Government here is the Sun, which often the Sun represents the government. The government has been campaigning for "Yes". So the populace overcoming and blocking the light of the government would seem like it is a sign that the populace is going to vote against what the government is campaigning for. So therefore voting "No".

Another factor to keep in mind is that Mercury is going to be involved in this eclipse and it isone of the motivators around the "No" vote is its aspect to Jupiter. So we could see at this very last gasp, the day of the voting, could we say that Mercury is also being eclipsed and therefore the people, the populace, is overcoming the doubts. That would be one way to look at that situation. So I think we have again, mixed results for what is going to happen there.

Let's have a look at what might be going on in that eclipse in terms of shaming. The Lajjit avashta, when we have a node, which in this case we have Ketu, and we have a natural malefic, which in this case is the Sun, and we have Mercury. So let's have a look at Mercury being shamed by the Sun.

"The Sun at first delights Mercury, inspiring the person with possibilities. Then the Sun agitates Mercury, giving problems, setting boundaries, and communicating needs. Also making Mercury try too hard to make the Sun's vision a reality and disrespecting friends in the process. Finally, with shame, the disappointment of not achieving the Sun's vision is internalized. The person becomes afraid of requesting anything and feels shame for even needing to ask". And when it involves Ketu, we can say that it has a flavor that... "The person feels that other people are not appreciating the person's contribution. And the person internalized that as feeling that they're worthless. And therefore they stop contributing and they feel shame".

This is if we consider that the Eclipse is causing Mercury a Lajjiit Avastha. Mercury is perhaps feeling that its contribution is not being appreciated, and this goes a little bit to what we were talking about the context of cost of living crisis and interest rates rising, people feeling that they're doing it tough and instead of contributing to this big initiative, they want to step out and cross their arms and let the project fail because "I'm doing it tough and you're not noticing that". It backs up some of the things that we were seeing in the chart earlier.

And then if you read that the eclipse is taking place in Libra, which is a part of the ecliptic owned by Venus. We could also have a look at what is happening on the other half of the Venus dichotomy. Venus rules a masculine and a feminine sign. It rules an active and a passive sign. It rules a negative and a positive sign. And if we were to look over there, we would see Taurus. And Jupiter is in Taurus. So we could also have a look at Jupiter being shamed by the Sun. And once again, "the Sun of course delights Jupiter by supplying him with an inspiring vision. But then Jupiter feels shame about not meeting that vision. The Sun prevents the person from acknowledging their inner joy and wisdom. The person's inner wisdom will not be well received or will be disrespected by authority figures. The person feels pain in expressing their heartfelt beliefs". And if that's happening with Ketu, "High ideas of doing good but can't make it happen. Self doubt prevents taking good actions".

Mercury and Jupiter are really important in this "Voice" question on the day. And because of their involvement in the eclipse, there's the potential for Mercury to be shamed, but if you happen to look at it that way, also for Jupiter to be shamed. So those both seem to point to me towards ticks in the "No" column.

[01:05:31] Astrological Advice?

[01:05:31] Fiona Marques: And this is where it becomes really interesting as the astrologer. What would the court astrologers say to the "Yes" campaign and to the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese?

And I think that Astrology is really helping us here see that dynamic between Mercury and Jupiter. That Mercury is creating doubt in the goodwill of Jupiter. So if I was the Prime Minister campaigning for a "Yes", perhaps what astrology helps us with here is understanding that reaction. That's natural given the layout ofthe birth chart and the referendum chart.

That perhaps I would speak to the previous times that Australia has had big ideas of improving its relationship with indigenous people. As we heard earlier, there was a referendum in 1967 to begin counting Aboriginal people as part of the population. And we have had very significant rulings from the highest court in the land around original ownership and custodianship of the land. And we've also had a national apology to Indigenous people for the treatment that they have received by the Australian government.

And in all of these cases, we can call upon the fact that Australia was bold enough and brave enough to take that unknown step into the future. That courageous step into forgiveness and into respectful peer relationships.

And at those times, of course, we had doubts. Australians had doubts in 1967. They had doubts about the land rights rulings. And they had doubts about the national apology So if I was Prime Minister, I would point out that we have had those doubts and at that time there was plenty of data about Or the possible treachery that could come from saying sorry, that might open us up to legal liability. And there was a lot of doubts about what sorry might mean. And with land rights, there was a lot of doubts that the non Indigenous people might be, inverted commas, "kicked off" our land. And all those fears of treachery have not played out at all. So I would be, as Prime Minister, appealing to the track record of taking the higher road, which Jupiter is always offering us that bigger, expansive, higher road and that the evidence so far points that even though we had doubts and even though we had a suspicion of treachery that we, inverted commas, were going to be betrayed is not actually what occurred.

That's where I think that astrology can help in the "Voice" conversation.

And it's also good to have a look when we have Jupiter starved by Mercury in our own charts. We can notice whether there's any evidence in the past when we've made bold decisions that were auspicious and righteous and expansive, whether in fact that treachery has occurred so we can begin to keep our mercury in the place that it belongs, which is fantastic rational mind and ability to manifest and organize and to manage things into existence to create materiality through attention. Keep Mercury with all of those great assets that it has, and just give that boundary to, to not allow it to poison the role of Jupiter in the chart. Which is to lead us to that expansive faith based sense of interconnectedness between everything. So those are my thoughts on "The Voice" Referendum.

[01:10:00] Jupiter and the Placenta

[01:10:00] Fiona Marques: And I want to return once again to our idea that planets share a band of the ecliptic that maps to the chakras.

So if we imagine the chart of the ecliptic, and we think about Capricorn and Aquarius being ruled by Saturn. They can be mapped in a way to the first chakra. And Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces and that represents the second chakra. And Mars rules Aries and Scorpio and that represents the third chakra.

You can see where I'm going because Venus rules Taurus and Libra and that would be the fourth chakra. Mercury has Gemini and Virgo for the 5th chakra. And the Sun and the Moon co rule the 6th chakra.

So if we were to map the planets as if they are chakras then we can see that Jupiter is not in the heart center as we've been talking about in this podcast, but it is in the second chakra. And the second chakra is our creative element. It is our sexual organs, our reproductive organs. It is where a baby grows. So it's the uterus. And I think that this also speaks to how important Jupiter is in our evolution as humanity. That the uterus is this unique organ in the body that can nurture the life of another being that may have a different blood type to ours. And certainly has different DNA. And the placenta is this unique conduit between this other being the uterus and The host. And I think that Jupiter ruling over the uterus is so powerful as a vision for where we can get to in terms of relating to other people. That we can be inspired to look for the placenta, look for those conduits that are miraculous. That allow us to co exist and not just co exist, but protect and feed and nurture each other so that information is passing both ways through that placenta. And bringing out the best in both. Let's hope that this is an opportunity for Australia to do that. And hope that it's an opportunity for the world that. And we have more and more of these opportunities let's hope that is true.

And let's look for those circumstances in our own lives where we have the opportunity to create something. Jupiter is a karaka for creation, so to create something that is unique and self sustaining And that is in our best interests for it to succeed. And if we were operating from that mindset rather than from a conquering mindset, I think we'll have much more opportunity to grow and to nurture each other and the planet and therefore be sustainable.

So I think while we looked at Spiral Dynamics and they seem to have a hierarchical approach, I love that in astrology and the layout of the chakras, Jupiter is actually right there in the second chakra and it reminds us that the chakras are not hierarchical and that the teacher of the gods is located in that second chakra, in that reproductive space and right between Saturn and Mars, the two strong malefics. And Jupiter is operating in between Saturn's fear and Mars's power. And Jupiter is holding this beautiful space between those two malefics, and it's inspiring.

And as well as that it might be a continuum, as we discussed in Spiral Dynamics, it might be much more that full flowing integration between all of these planets and chakras, and a valuing of all of them for the role that they play in our lives.

Being god like is having all of those chakras integrated, accessible, and operating at their purest frequency. It's easy in spirituality to sometimes look at the way the chakras are laid out on the astrology chart and think that we're racing towards Cancer and Leo. And actually what we're trying to do is look at the whole chart and integrate the whole chart. And that's the great gift of being incarnated in a body is the chance to extinguish / experience the karma that it is our opportunity here in this moment in time and space to experience and detach from. So very inspiring placement of Jupiter.

[01:15:31] Summary and conclusion

[01:15:31] Fiona Marques: Where does that leave us? Now we've explored all of the the context of the referendum, and we've looked at perhaps a continuum where cultures are evolving and becoming more aware. And Australia has perhaps been offered in this referendum a chance to step up and have a more expansive and Jupiter approach.

But perhaps because of the starvation of Mercury in the chart, that might be a step too far for Australia. And it has just triggered a sense of doubt and a sense of not knowing the answer, not having enough data.

We do have some wildcards that there is an eclipse happening and we do have Rahu on the Ascendant. And I will be watching in interest and seeing what happened and I'd be very interested also to hear what your thoughts are about different parts in the world and different ways that countries have come into creation and how they're relating with their history.

That's been my exploration recently of Jupiter and Mercury and the Eclipse and the Referendum. I hope you found it interesting and I'd love to hear your thoughts and I hope that you'll join me on Patreon to discuss anything about this podcast or any of the other episodes. Thanks for being here with me and look forward to seeing you next time on "The Vedic Astrology Podcast".

Bye everyone!.