S3 Episode 6 - Which planetary placements are better or worse? with Ryan Kurczak
Understanding a planet's various influences in Vedic Astrology can sometimes be a herculean task. One might find themselves wondering if particular planetary placements are beneficial or disadvantageous. To explore this unsatiable curiosity, one must dive into deep astrological conversations, understand the many layers of astrological information, and probe into insights from specific placements and degrees. Recently, I had one such enriching interaction with Ryan Kurczak, the author of “The Art and Science of Vedic Astrology” series and the teacher behind The Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship Program.
Ryan currently hosts a live, monthly Q&A session for students on the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship Program. And a recent stimulating Q&A session is what prompted this interview to dig deeper into the topic of Shadbhala.
The conversation consistently revolved around whether having a strong or weak planet in a particular position was beneficial. Vedic Astrology, wisely, doesn’t classify any situation as broadly 'better' or 'worse.' Instead, these classifications primarily depend on the individual's life agenda. Ryan discusses in detail how factors like placement in the natal chart, Dasha periods, and transits combined with other elements in the chart impact elemental strengths and weaknesses.
Even so, I make sure to ask all those tricky questions like:
Is it ever good to have a debilitated planet?
Why is it that an exalted Saturn can be so difficult?
Is it better to have a strong or a weak 6th lord of health and enemies?
How can we understand Dig bala, Kala bala and Chesta bala better?
If these sound like questions you struggle with in evaluating a planet in a client’s chart, you might really enjoy today’s episode! As an astrologer or enthusiast, understanding these aspects can enrich your analysis of birth charts, making your readings more insightful and impactful.
Transcript
Which planetary placements are better or worse with Ryan Kurczak
[00:00:00] Introduction and Welcome
[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques. I have a treat for us today because I am joined by my teacher and the creative force behind the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship program, Ryan Kurczak. And he's here to answer questions about "Is it better or is it worse to have a strong planet or a weak planet in a particular position?"
So we're going to be drilling down into loads of scenarios about whether it's better to have a planet in this situation or that situation. And one of the things I love about Vedic Astrology is how it puts front and center in our awareness the whole philosophy behind karma. And it brings to mind for me that story that you may have heard, a Chinese proverb, about the old man who lost his horse and will it bring good luck or bad luck.
So this beautiful proverb is that the old man lives near the frontier with the barbarians and one day his horse disappears off into the frontier territory, maybe never to be seen again. And the villagers are like, "Oh, that's such bad luck!". And the old man is, "Who can say, is a good luck or bad luck?"
And sure enough, several months later, out of nowhere, the horse comes back and brings with it several horses from the opposing tribe. Beautiful, healthy horses. And suddenly the villagers are like, "Wow, what good luck!" And the old man is "Well, who can say if it is good luck or bad luck?"
And his son on the farm is able to use the horses to do so much more work, but he loves riding them. And he goes off riding on this one particular horse and he falls and breaks his leg. And the whole village is "Oh, this is such bad luck!! Your only son is crippled by riding this horse". And the old farmer is "Who can say is it good luck or bad luck?"
And then sometime in the future. The barbarians invade and all the young men are conscripted into the army to help push back this invasion. The farmer's son cannot be conscripted because he has this injury. So he's able to stay and many of the conscripted villagers are killed in this battle. And so perhaps this injury of the leg was good luck because the farmer has his son alive and to continue to look after the farm.
So this story reminds us that we don't really know what is good and bad. And our perspective is very limited.
And reading charts is like that too, that we, our perspective is limited and the chart is a way to open up a little bit more light, a little bit more perspective. So within that caveat of not knowing what is good and what is bad, I've invited Ryan here to share with us some of his wisdom and insights about various scenarios. But before we get into that, let's hear a little bit about how the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship Program is going on Teachable.
Hi, Ryan. It's great to have you back on the podcast. Before we dive into our topic today, let's talk a little bit about the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship Program. What's been going on with that program this year?
[00:03:25] Ryan Kurczak: Okay. With the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship Program, as you are doing a lot of work with that. And I've been spending a lot of time answering questions during the monthly Q and A. And so what the Apprenticeship students are able to do is as they go through their modules we have a little syllabus or outline of pertinent questions to ask, and then we'll spend an hour or two hours or so going through the material. And just recently we were talking about Shadbala, and I think that might be a little bit why we're inspired to discuss what we're going to get into today.
[00:04:00] Context
[00:04:00] Fiona Marques: Exactly.
One of the methodologies of the Apprenticeship program is finding confluence in a chart is to empower students to understand the many different ways that a planet shows up in a person's life and in their birth chart. And looking at it through many different perspectives, we can see where a planet is performing well and where a planet is going to struggle and that helps us with everything from timing to personality to health, whatever it is, the exact placement of this planet is a rich source of information.
And in order to do that as apprentices, we learn how to look at these different factors and weigh up whether a planet is well supported or is challenged. Sometimes to the point that we actually have a little scoring sheet and, look through this filter and this filter, I see three areas of support and look through these other filters. And I see four or five areas for challenge. So it can be quite almost mathematical or it's data analysis. It's, it's got a kind of rigor to it.
And that's great when we're learning. However, once we get into the real world of looking at somebody's chart, all the nuances and subtleties are there and we can find ourselves getting wrapped in knots about what is a good thing and what is not a good thing. What factors should we say are positive and what factors should we say are negative?
So in the context of that, I've got a few questions that I want to ask you that I thought I knew what the answer to when I boldly headed off as a new astrologer, I thought I knew the answer to these questions. And then in real life, looking at real charts, I can see it's a lot more complex than that.
[00:05:45] Is it ever 'good' to have a Debilitated planet?
[00:05:45] Fiona Marques: So could we start with something as simple as dignity - and the very best dignity exalted and the very worst dignity debilitated? It's easy as a new astrologer to feel like we want planets to be exalted, that our clients are gonna be really achieving what they want in their life with that. And we don't want our clients to have debilitated planets.
But as we get to learn about Shadbala, it's not actually as black and white as that. Is it? And therefore, my broadest question is, are there times when it can be good to have a debilitated planet?
[00:06:28] Ryan Kurczak: I do think there are times that it's good to have a debilitated planet because we all have different agendas in life, and we all have different reasons as to why we are here. One easy example for that might be, let's imagine we have an individual who is really interested intheir spiritual well being. They're really interested in understanding the deeper meaning of life. And what life is all about and why we're here. For them, having a debilitated 3rd, 7th or 11th Lord might really be in their favor. Because the 3rd, 7th and 11th Lord, when it comes to some of these yogas, they're considered to be
yoga breakers. They get in the way of people's success and so on. But 3, 7 and 11 are also planets that are related to Kama or enjoyment or getting caught up in the distractions of the world, such as your hobbies, such as other people such as gains and popularity and so on. And so if someone is interested in being, let's say, just a they're just interested in being a yogi. That's all they want to do is practice yoga. They want to study the Gita. They want to study the yoga sutras, and they really want to understand what is going on in those texts and what is going on in our consciousness. If their 3rd, 7th, or 11th Lords are debilitated they're not going to have to worry about their friends, asking them to go spend late nights out drinking beer. They're not going to have to worry about all the hobbies that are distracting them from their studies. They're not going to have to worry about the challenges that come with relationships because again, all things being equal, we can't really just say that because it's debilitated, that's the way it's going to happen. But. If that's the case, then it's much easier for them to fulfill their agenda.
So when it comes to like Debilitated and Exalted planets, oftentimes one of the things we have to look at is what is the agenda of the person? And this is also why Vedic Astrology is said to be the eye of the Vedas or the eye of knowledge, and it's supposed to promote self knowledge. And that's also why it's sometimes difficult to give a reading to someone that you have just met. You can do a very good job, but the best astrology comes when you've developed rapport with an astrologer who can learn your nuances and how you have worked with planets. And this is also why astrology ideally is meant to be practiced by someone's guru or their teacher, because that's someone that you're working with over a long period of time. And they have a sense of who you are and what you are about. And that helps you to understand is this debilitated planet going to actually work well or not based on their agendas in life? So there's a lot to it, but there are some nuances that can help us. If we just spend more time focusing on what is our goal. And then when you hear about whether your planets Debilitated or Exalted, that'll give you a greater sense of whether it is good or not.
[00:09:32] Fiona Marques: Okay, so now let's drill down a little bit into some of this Debilitation, Exalted. Because when we start to learn Shadbala, actually Exalted just means Uchabala. Doesn't it? It's just one of the five or six things that go into Staanabala. So while we can freak out about having a debilitated planet, in the scheme of the entire Shadbala, it's a small portion of whether a planet is powerful or not powerful.
[00:10:01] Ryan Kurczak: And it's not just It's not just in Shadbala, I remember having a discussion with Ernst Wilhelm one time, and he had mentioned when people were arguing about which Zodiac is accurate. Someone would say I know my planet can't be debilitated because I have this support with it.
And he went on to say it could be debilitated, but you might have three friends through Lajjitaadi Avashtas supporting that planet. And so it's still going to work well. So yes it does have to do with Shadbala, but there are other things too, which can qualify whether a debilitated planet really is going to be troublesome or not.
[00:10:37] Fiona Marques:
[00:10:37] What about Mars Exalted which always leads to low Ayana bala?
[00:10:37] Fiona Marques: And then there are some unique quirks that happen with Shadbala and debilitation. For example, Mars, when it's exalted, does really poorly with Ayanabala because it will be placed in Capricorn, which is in the part of the Zodiac that doesn't go well with Mars's approach to conflict.
Whereas when it's debilitated in Cancer, it's going to get off the chart scores for Ayanabala. So that kind of challenges us to think about. Why that is?
[00:11:09] Ryan Kurczak: There's a couple of reasons as to why that could be. One of them, might be a little controversial and possibly untrue, but it's something to think about. When we calculate Ayanabala we're often looking at where the planet is. For example, you just mentioned Mars being in Capricorn. All right. I think that is a good way to calculate Ayanabala. But in my mind, I have wondered, and I've not had a chance to really test this out yet, I have wondered, since Ayanabala is based on the movement of the Sun, as it goes towards the North Pole, and then as it goes towards the South Pole, should you really use where Mars is in a Zodiac sign, or is it that when the Sun is closer to the North Pole then the planets that get Ayanabala when it's up in the Devic Realm then they've got strength? Or when the Sun say is down in Capricorn when it's towards the South pole, then the planets that get strength, such as Moon and Saturn in the Southern hemisphere? So I wonder this isn't to confuse people, but it's something to think about, I wonder if Ayanabala would work better if we use that?
But, on the other hand, if we go with the idea that you mentioned of Mars being Exalted in Capricorn and then the Ayanabala being low because Ayanabala deals with how we manage conflict and so on. Mars is the planet of how we manage conflict.
Again, if we go back to some deeper philosophies, Mars is a soldier, which is completely surrendered. And so if a soldier is completely surrendered to the divine, because we have to remember this is supposed to be a divine science, then that soldier is taking the orders and the soldier isn't dealing with conflict himself or herself, the soldier is simply going with the expression of consciousness. So there's some different ways to look at it, and I'm not sure exactly which one is a hundred percent, right?
[00:13:08] Fiona Marques: It's really interesting with Mars because it can very much affect the overall Shadbala score for Mars. So often one will find, if Mars is exalted in the chart, it's actually not necessarily powerful in Shadbala.
[00:13:22] How can having Exalted Saturn be a bad thing - what's up with Sasa Yoga?
[00:13:22] Fiona Marques: And then what about Exalted Saturn? Which seems to me like as a new astrologer, I was like, if you want one planet exalted let's have Saturn because let's have it operating at its best. But then I start reading clients charts and I found out about this Sasa yoga when Saturn is exalted or in very good dignity in an angle and every other planet when it's in great dignity and in an angle gets its own, Swan yoga or whatever yoga goes with that planet. And it's a great thing. Mars gets that bright and sharp kind of yoga. But with Saturn gets this Sasa yoga that can be quite intense for the person experiencing it. Quite a lot of fear and a sense of, yeah, always being vulnerable. So it seems like in that case, not great to have this exalted planet.
[00:14:19] Ryan Kurczak: Yeah. Again, it depends on the chart because Saturn is a planet that makes a person extremely strong. If you've got Saturn in an angle and Saturn's exalted an angle, then we have to have a Libra Ascendant. if It's on the first, a first house and so on. If we look at it from Capricorn, Saturn's in the 10th house. One of the most difficult ones is probably for Aries when we have Saturn in the seventh house and then for Cancer when we have Saturn in the fourth house. So when you think about Libra and you think about Capricorn, it's very possible that yoga is going to work to provide strength of character.
And when you think about it from the position of Aries or the position or Lagna of Cancer, that's going to be a little bit different. So it comes down to whose Ascendant are we talking about here? And then we also have to really analyze the rest of the chart to see, is someone going to be able to ultimately handle that Saturn well, because Saturn is meant to make us strong. Saturn is meant to make us overcome all of our fears. And what is one way to overcome those things, but to force a person to get involved with them, to see them, to feel them as deeply and powerfully as possible. And the same thing is true for psychological difficulties. If your psychological issue is just kind of so, so, and you can manage it, you can push it down and you can repress it. You can go your whole life and not deal with it. But if your psychological issue is so strong and so in your awareness that you can't get around but to find a way to manage, heal, or resolve that situation you have to do it.
So I think that yoga with Saturn it's a hard one because most people don't really appreciate what Saturn can do for them. And again, we might need to look at the Ascendant Lord, what the Ascendant Lord is up to. How's the Atmakaraka work? What are the Lajjitaadi Avashtas related to that Saturn and so on? So there's a lot to look at and with all things in astrology. You can't just say there's a yoga there and then that's it as though that's going to define the whole chart. You have to go through the entire exploration of what the chart says before you'll really be able to understand, will they be able to wear that crown of that exalted Saturn yoga? You have to see is there foundation there that they'll be able to put that on and it'll be heavy, but they'll be able to be strong enough to grow into it? Or is it going to be something that does work like like iron chain, just bog them down. And if that's the case, then you have to look at the rest of the chart to figure out ways. How can you grow into it? What kind of inner work do you need to do? What kind of remedies do you need to engage in? Because if it's, if you've got that crown, you've got that crown and you have to find a way to to manage it one way or the other.
[00:17:20] Fiona Marques: Yeah, I think, what's great about contemplating these things is it gives us even more insight into each planet, doesn't it? Because as we go through those core yogas for every other planet. They really seem like gifts and with Saturn in the Sasa Yoga, it is a gift, but it's a Saturn gift.
[00:17:41] Ryan Kurczak: It's the ultimate gift, really. I'm saying that it's almost Saturn on the Ascendant and people have called me out on that, but I would just like to take a moment to discuss that. Sometimes you'll find these books where people say, "Just believe in good things and good things happen all the time", or just, "If you just surrender to everything, everything good is going to come to you". That's going to be great if you've got Jupiter on the exalted, I'm sure that's what's going to happen! And usually what happens is people who have that, they live that life and they can't understand why doesn't everyone surrender. And so that's one way to look at it. And so from my perspective, having Saturn on the Ascendant, I think that is a profound gift, despite the difficulties and the strain that it has caused, because at the end of the day, it is the power of Saturn that shatters all of your illusions. It shatters all of your attachments. And as far as yoga and spirituality goes, that's the reason we are here in this world as beings, as individualized units of consciousness. We go through a period of time where, yes, we learned to navigate the joys and the sorrows and so on, and that's what most people are fascinated with. But that's not the end stage. In this sort of spiritual philosophy, you go through the idea of being at the stage of a rock and then a plant and then an animal. And then you finally experience the consciousness of a human being. Which means you now have executive function. But that's not the end. There's the Devata stage and the Sannyasin stage, which come after that. And. It's through the practice of tapping into Saturn that you realize not to stop at being human. And part of being human is being absolutely caught up in all of the dramas and all of the attachments. And Saturn is that planet that will, at the end of the day, break every single one of those attachments. And if you can do that consciously, then you end up becoming free. And then you end up knowing what a lot of these Saints and Sages know, what if we consider Jesus is a historical figure or Buddha or Krishna consciousness and so on. You have to go through that process of letting go. And that goes through almost every thread of spiritual literature I have come across. And so in my mind Saturn is very important in this regard.
[00:19:56] Should we counsel clients to 'endure' or to 'remedy'?
[00:19:56] Fiona Marques: I'm so glad that I asked you that question because this is really also at the heart of, I think what I'm trying to ask is that, how do we work with our chart. And sometimes people come to astrologers, maybe there's this motivation to want to get around a situation or to avoid suffering. And as an astrologer, of course, we also really want to help our clients as much as we can.
What I'm asking is philosophically, as an astrologer, when to help clients with remedies and when to help clients see a bigger path or a bigger calling.
[00:20:44] Ryan Kurczak: I think it comes down to two things. I think it comes down to understanding timing within the astrological chart. That's number 1. And then also the self knowledge factor. So what I mean by that is when you look at a person's chart and, you've gone through the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship course, you've worked with a lot of students. And the whole purpose of that program is to give a step-by-step, layer-by-layer understanding of what is going into this ball of consciousness we are calling our client. And there's going to be some aspects that are good and supportive and going in this direction. And some that are going contrary directions. And they overlap and they tie into each other.
And if you could put like a light underneath all of these layers, you would see where the dark spots are. You'd see where the light spots are. You'd see all the different bits of confluence. So it gives you a sense of what is this person all about? It's I was thinking about this the other day. You may notice that as you go through your life, it's like some things are always in your life, just in a different form. And what came up with that for me, as I was thinking about it, it's I've always had the same blueprint of friends. No matter where I moved, no matter where I showed up to, there's always the one friend that wanted to talk my ear off for hours on end and would never be quiet. There's always the one friend that was super supportive. There's always the one friend that had some addiction issues that I would have to work with them. No matter where I went, there was just a different version of these same people everywhere.
And even in my house there's one particular problem that no matter what house I've lived in, that problem has always showed up in that house. As soon as I move in, that starts having that problem.
Fish tanks. I like fish. And I can remember from a very young age, every room that I've been in where I've studied and worked, I've always had a fish tank and I've been trying to get rid of it for years. And I've got another one with one guppy left and a whole bunch of planets, but it's still there.
So anyway, what I'm trying to get at is there, there are these things which are like essentials that are stamps of your consciousness. And your chart reveals that because these things will show up again and again, as an astrologers reading the chart. From the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship program curriculum, our goal is to see those patterns and become very clear on what they are.
Now, helping a person understand that will help them not get frustrated. You know what, you're going to move into this house. You know what's going to happen. That problem is going to show up again. And you inform them about how there is this pattern and just don't worry about it so much. It's just part of your energetic makeup. And it's so strong that yes, you could try, and you could try, and you could try to fix it. But more than likely, you're just going to frustrate yourself. And from my experience, thousands of dollars, multiple contractors, all of these different things have been spent on this problem in different locations. And it's still there, . So that's an example of sort of a, maybe you'd call that a fixed karma. We do talk about this in "The Art and Science of Vedic Astrology" and in the course.
So that's like a fixed karma. So as you're looking at a person's chart, you can see their fixed karmas and hopefully an astrologer is able to determine what is the primary purpose of this person's life. And that's where we get into an understanding of the yogas. And now we might not always want to admit what the primary purpose of our life is because we have resistance or it doesn't feel like that's what we should be doing. Or we have all these 3rd, 7th, and 11th Lords that are telling us, but you should be having fun all the time. Many things can get in the way of it. But you get a sense of the blueprint. You get a sense of the general purpose of a person's life.
And then when it comes to timing, let's say a person has a chart that shows they're typically going to have good relationships. And they're going to, they're going to present that way. That's not necessarily going to be the thing that the client comes to you for, but then one day they come to you and say, "Oh, my relationship, it's just gone down the tubes. This has happened". The skilled astrologer can look at the chart. And then they can say, "All right, I can definitely see that you generally have good relationship karma. Oh, but based on this Dasa and based on this transit, there is certainly some interference going on there". So it's at that point in time where you can say, "Here's a remedy that you can do. Here's a way that you can be more patient, that you can not get so caught up in it. And then let that time period pass. And then you'll find yourself going back to where you were before".
And this is applicable to people are unhappy. So they get a new job. They're happier for a little while, but once that wears off, they go right back to their default level of happiness.
So the great thing about astrology and a good astrologer is that they can see what are the default settings of the person. And hopefully, they can help them understand how to live within those parameters. And then by paying attention to the dasas and the transits, they can help them navigate those things.
But if someone comes to me and their chart indicates difficult relationships, my experience has shown that yes, they might go through a positive period of good relationships, but it's always going to typically go back to their default setting of finding problems with the relationships. Or not having a good capacity to be in a relationship. And so in that case, what an astrologer has to do is not say, "Go get a remedy. Don't go buy a new, pink Sapphire". They would say, "Look, this is your default setting. So if you really want to change your capacity for relationships. You have to change you from a psychological level. And that's probably going to take years of counseling and therapy, because there's a reason you are this way. And you were born into a birth chart, which made that possible. And so your parents behaved in a way which made you feel that you were a victim of certain situations. So you don't know how to be in a good relationship. So you have to go back into the program. And one of the best ways to do that is with a skilled psychologist or a skilled counselor. To dig that up. And that's what's going to make a long time change. And there might be some things that there are some things that you have to ask yourself. Are you really willing to spend that much energy and that much of your time and struggle that much to make a change here? And maybe you are".
But using the example of relationships, everyone wants to be in a fantastic relationship, but that might not serve everyone. Maybe the person's chart is meant to not have good relationships so that they can learn to be alone. To pursue that, which is deeply meaningful to them without the support of another person. We are communal beings so we do need to have some kind of plug into a community and so on, but things like relationships or money, there's so many different things in life that we might have incarnated to recognize that we actually don't need that to be successful and happy.
And if an astrologer has the ability to share that's wonderful, but there's also a responsibility on the client on the person who's getting the reading. And this is what makes astrology so hard and so hard to pull into kind of like a mainstream acceptance is because there is an idea that the astrologer is meant to give information that will fix everything.
The astrologer can provide information, but it's up to the client, it's up to the person receiving the information to do something with it, to find the avenue or the route to help them work with it in a way that will lead them to a sense of success or peacefulness in, in their current life situation.
[00:28:17] Fiona Marques: I really like what you're saying about timing, that's a time when an astrologer can intervene when it's the timing that is messing up the fundamental pattern of the chart. That's really useful information.
[00:28:30] Ryan Kurczak: I have a few examples
that I've had. One of them was with my astrology teacher, Richard Fish the coauthor of "The Art and Science of Vedic Astrology" book series. He died of cancer. He was a very healthy, vegan, Ayurvedic practitioner, yogi. He lived in a way that was supposed to be beneficial to his health. And he actually went through a very difficult period. And his guru, my teacher as well, Roy Jean Davis told him, "Don't let the words of doctors poison your mind". And he took that and he overcame an illness that people don't overcome. It was mesothelioma. And when he went back to the doctor after deciding not to do treatments, the doctors found just some scar tissue in his lungs and they said "We don't know why, we don't know why you've gotten better!", but he did. And so that was one experience he had.
But then five years later he developed cancer, and this time he was having difficulty seeing his own chart and he wrote to me and he asked me what I thought. And I was a little intimidated by that for obvious reasons. Because he was a friend. He was a teacher. He was a mentor. He was a spiritual brother of mine. But he was having difficulty. And so I meditated as long as I needed to get as clear as I can be. And I looked at his chart and what I saw was two very difficult sub dasas. I remember that he had overcome a fatal illness. And I looked at his chart and otherwise his chart was good for health in many ways. And then I looked at these two dasas and all I could say to him was, "If you can survive these two dasas, you'll be fine". And that's felt very true. And looking at the the formulas and following my intuition, the best I could, that seemed true. And he didn't make it through those two dasas.
So that's one example. I had another client who was having all kinds of health difficulties. And they finally came to me and they told me what the issue was. And I looked at their chart and I looked at it again and again. And I thought, I just don't see this problem that they're telling me that they have. And I'm thinking, I must be making some mistakes here. But I have to go with what I know. I have to say what I know, what I feel in sense to be true based on my understanding. And so I saidI don't want to give them information that is going to cause them problems, and I'm not a medical specialist in any way, so I wondered to myself, how can I share this information in a way that will be most helpful to them? And I knew that they were very alternative medicine minded. Which means getting them to go to any kind of allopathic doctor was going to be a difficult stretch. But I saw this period of time, this sub dasa, where it indicated getting really good information from a health perspective. Information that they could trust information would be really good for them.
And knowing that I wasn't going to be able to encourage them to actually go to an allopathic doctor. And what they were telling me, it sounded like they really should go to an allopathic doctor. I said, "There is this cycle coming up. And if you go to a doctor now, that doctor will be able to give you the information that you need".
And so they scheduled it. And this thing that they thought was going to kill them. They thought they had this terrible disease. The doctor basically said, you have GERD, Gastro Esophageal Reflux Disorder. And so they thought they were dying of cancer and had all these problems. But they went to the doctor during this particular time period. And that allowed them to finally get relief from five years of torment and worry and suffering that they had been going through because they wouldn't go to a doctor. So they finally came to me and I saw that and I was able to give that information to them. And they wrote back and they said it was just like a weight had been relieved from them. And then they had a way of addressing what the actual issue was. So these are two health related things to consider.
And one more, I had a client that was in a very long term relationship. They'd been married since they were in their early twenties had children. Every time I would see them out in public, they seemed like they were very compatible. They did well together. I'd done their charts. And talked to them each about each other and how to make things work. But then one day after a few years, I hadn't seen them. The wife came to me and said, "I think we're going to get a divorce". And I was shocked because I remember their charts. And I looked at the chart and I saw the same thing that I saw before that they actually did have good relationship compatibility. Really good capacity to be in a relationship together. And they were also mature individuals that could handle difficulties.
But then I saw that they were going through or at least the wife was going through a Moon Saturn period and I said, "When did this start?" And I looked at the chart and it started about a week or two around when the Moon Saturn period started.
And I looked at it and I said, "I understand this is a life altering choice. I hope you're going to a counselor that'll help out a lot". I said, "But if you can stick with a counselor. And you can keep talking. From an astrological perspective, I'm going to consider that, by this date, (which is when the Moon Saturn periods stopped), that things will resolve themselves. That you'll find a greater peace. A greater understanding. There'll be less confusion. Less problems. And so on".
And they stuck with it. And since I'd been there, their astrologer for such a long time, they trusted my advice and they waited. And the woman said "It wasn't exactly when that happened, but it was about a month later when all of a sudden there was just an 'A-ha' moment. And we came to an understanding of how we could proceed with a relationship and we were actually stronger and closer because of it".
So timing is very important. And timing and understanding the actual baseline of the chart, that's a very important thing.
[00:34:18] Fiona Marques:
[00:34:18] Is it 'better' to have a strong or weak 6th Lord?
[00:34:18] Fiona Marques: So you brought up there some good examples of health related anecdotes. Tell us about the 6th Lord. Is it good to have a weak 6th Lord because your enemies are weak or is having a weak 6th Lord going to mean your health is weak? Talk about house lords and this better or worse situation.
[00:34:41] Ryan Kurczak: First of all, we can't make a blanket statement. Because there are so many factors that go into that. For example, yes, the 6th Lord might be weak, but there might be positive planets in the 6th house. Or the 6th Lord might be getting help from friends' Lajjitaadi Avasthas. There's all kinds of different things.
Butlet's just pretend that a blanket statement is going to make it all work. So when you think about the 6th Lord, the 6th Lord, in a sense is like our immune system, right? So when our immune system is weak, we can't fight things off. And so we get knocked down more and more. And so if we have a weak 6th Lord, sometimes it can mean that our immune system is weak. And that's also the body's ability to remove toxins. That which is not needed. And so many people in life,the reason they suffer so much in life is because they don't know what to get out of their life. They just want friends. They don't care if the friends are bad influence. They don't care if the friends are causing them more problems and more drama. They just want friends. And so that causes difficulty for them. And when you have a weak 6th Lord, sometimes you don't have the discernment to know what is worth putting into your body and what is worth getting out of your body. So that's one thing to keep in mind.
Now, as far as like enemies and so on. Here's the thing, the stronger you are, the stronger your enemies are going to be. That tends to be the case. It's like, I learned to play pickleball. My sister got me into pickleball. And here's the thing. When I wasn't very good at pickleball, my enemies weren't that good either. But as I got stronger and as I got better at pickleball, Oh, geez, it's like every time I get better now, I'm just getting smashed by this new wave of opponents who is 10 times better than me. But because I wanted to get better, I also got stronger.
So the 6th Lord it can be a mixed bag for people because as you get stronger, you then have the ability to take on more. Saturn is related to the 6th House. And Saturn is a planet of responsibility. And if our responsibilities are stronger, that means we are stronger.
However, as human beings, we are meant to be as strong as we are meant to be. We are meant to be as strong as we can be without going to any kind of extremes. So if the 6th Lord has weakness that's just going to show essentially what is the battleground that you can function on.
And if you know that the 6th Lord is weak and you have a low immune system you have to wear a mask when you go out, you have to wash your hands all the time, not to pick up the food off the floor if it's only been on there for five seconds and eat it because you're going to get sick.
But as you assess the 6th Lord to be stronger, the immune system is going to be stronger. The responsibility of the person is going to be stronger. And so then they can know that they can probably take more chances. Or when someone comes to you and they say, "I've got a legal issue". And this happens a lot with 6th House things. I've seen this quite a bit, 6th and 8th House things. Someone comes up to me and they say, "You know what? I want to bring a lawsuit against this person". And I see their 6th Lord isn't doing very well at all. All right. In a way we have to remember that the 6th Lord, it does relate to the other person's enemies, but it can also show how much of a fight do we have in us? It depends on where it's placed as well, too. So if you see difficulties with the 6th House and someone wants to bring a lawsuit against someone else, you got to ask him "Do you really think you have the energy and the drive and the motivation to suffer through that?" and, you have to be very real with the person about that.
But if you get an exalted 6th Lord, this is someone who can take on all kinds of legal issues. And they've got one battle after the other, and they never get knocked down. So the 6th Lord for health, the 6th Lord for enemies, the 6th Lord for success and legal issues and so on.
There's a lot to look at it. But it all comes down to what is this person really willing to do and capable of doing it? And how much belief do they have in themselves?
Let's just say you have a really strong Jupiter in a person's chart, and yet they have a lot of difficulty with their 6th House. This could be someone who really feels optimistic about their ability to succeed. They're the kind of person that they haven't trained a whole lot, but they want to get on that soccer field with the pros and they can handle it. But then they just get kicked all over the field.
You have to look to see, what is the quality of the person and is their optimism really supported. Or is it not? And when it comes to things like enemies, battles and health and so on, then that's when you want to look at the 6th House.
[00:39:21] Fiona Marques: Exactly.
[00:39:23] Is low Dig bala ever a 'good' thing?
[00:39:23] Fiona Marques: Okay. So let me keep going with these different scenarios as we drill a little bit deeper into Shadbala. Dig bala seems to be something that it's good to have high Dig bala and a planet does not perform at its best if it has a low Dig bala.
Is that something that we can hold on to always good to have high Dig bala? Or are there actually times when it's good to have low Dig bala?
[00:39:51] Ryan Kurczak: My experience has been Dig bala is the one that I like to see as often as possible. And that's mainly because, Dig bala is the capacity to use the planet effectively and efficiently. And the other side of this is that while, yes, the example I gave earlier, the Yogi might not want to have a lot of strength to their 3rd, 7th or 11th Lords and so on. But we have to remember, (and this is one of the great things about Shadbala) is that the planets are representations of our consciousness. What makes Fiona, Fiona Ryan, Ryan, the people who are listening to who they are. It's like each planet is an aspect of the consciousness, just like you have a liver and you have lungs and you have a heart, you have a brain and so on. Every human being mostly needs that to function well. From an energetic standpoint, the planets are necessary for all of us to function in this world. And so when I look at Dig bala I like to see Dig bala doing well, because it means that most of the time that planet is going to function for them in a way that helps them utilize that planet in an effective and an efficient way.
And when you utilize a planet in an effective and efficient way, sometimes it can cause some problems on a personality level. But ultimately what it's doing is it's giving you the capacity to relate just to relate to consciousness in a healthy fashion. So I personally love to see planets with good Dig bala and that's not going to be very common for a lot of situations. So it's not like you're going to get every planet with Dig bala. Otherwise, everyone would have what Mercury and Jupiter in the 1st House, Sun and Mars and the 10th house, Moon and Venus in the 4th House. And that's not going to happen, but I do like to see a good Dig bala.
[00:41:42] Should we be helping our clients avoid 'karmas' in the chart?
[00:41:42] Fiona Marques: And so going back to our earlier discussion about the underlying fixed karma in someone's chart, can we say that if we see that low Dig bala, it is there to facilitate karmas coming up? To facilitate a particular issue or problem or suffering with that planet coming up? Because if we had good Dig bala with that planet, we'd nip it in the bud. We wouldn't go down that street. We would see it before it occurred. So having the low Dig bala helps facilitate the karma that someone has that's available for them to process in this lifetime.
[00:42:19] Ryan Kurczak: Yeah. I think in a way the whole chart is like that.
[00:42:24] Fiona Marques: Yes.
And this is what's tricky about astrology. Because the way astrology is promoted again, at least from my experience, how many people have come to me and what I see in articles and how people just talk about astrology. It's as though that if you get the information that you'll be able to live like a god on the earth. It's like everyone do this yoga and you'll be wealthy. Wear this gemstone and you'll have all the relationships that you possibly want. That's a very materialistic way of looking at astrology. But we live in a materialistic age. The time that we're in many people are materialistically minded. And that's okay, because we have to go through it.
[00:43:10] Ryan Kurczak: But when people pay attention to their life, really take a step back, and if they're living as responsibly as they can, if they are able to recognize that they have psychological complexes to work through and traumas that are informing how they make decisions and so on. If they're able to develop an awareness that is the case, people will tend to start to see every thing that happens as an opportunity for growth.
And those of you who are listening to this that are scoffing at that, believe me, I've been in a situation in many situations where I've scoffed at it to the thought "Who would set up life such that would be the case? That I have to go through these things in order to learn?" So I'm not minimizing anyone's suffering. But my experience has been, and I've seen this in other people's lives, too, that every challenge that comes our way is really an opportunity to recognize some form of growth or some capacity or direction to change. Or it is an opportunity for surrender. And by surrender I don't mean you just throw up your hands and give up and crawl under a rock. You start looking to figure out "What is really going on here?, Is there something so much bigger than me, that there is an intelligence that's made all of this possible?"
If you really stop and contemplate it, this is an amazing experience. And even in the worst situations, the fact that it is possible is an amazing thing. And so what our charts show us is what are we meant to either make peace with, tap into and utilize or surrender to. And we do have strengths and we do have things that we can do very well. But there are other things that no matter what we do again, this has been my experience, nothing's going to change there. No one is going to become Superman. Learn how to fly. It's not going to happen.
So what if we got that out of our mind and we started making peace with the fact that you can walk. Walking is a beautiful thing. Anyone who's ever been injured in an accident or had been laid up for a while, the moment they get up and they can walk again, they're like, "Wow! I've taken that for granted so much!"
The beauty of astrology is that it can teach you everything you need to know if you're willing to have a sense of self awareness about it. But life itself will do that if you just pay attention a little bit. With Dig bala, Shadbala, with all of these things, I think they're really helpful for bringing a sense of self awareness before life comes along and forces that self awareness on you.
[00:45:49] Is high Kala bala a 'curse'?
[00:45:49] Fiona Marques: So I'm loving all of this because right next to Dig bala underneath is Kala bala. Which is one that I'm always thinking it's great to have low Kala bala. Don't notice suffering. Don't notice pain. Just feel detached from my experiences. When is it good to have low Kala bala?
[00:46:06] Ryan Kurczak: I think in an ideal world, yes, you would want to have low Kala bala for planets that are going to indicate difficult karmas.
Kala bala is one of the calculations to give you that final Shadbala score. And Kala bala shows how strong an event is going to impact your consciousness. In Surya Siddhanta, there's this idea that time is the force that brings events to pass.
Kala bala is the one that makes the difference in when you were five years old and you got ran over by a truck and that didn't impact your life at all. You survived. You were able to recover, recuperate. And you just got up and you went about your business. Low Kala bala there.
But someone else who might have gotten stung by a bee when they were in the 8th grade and that bee sting made them paranoid of every insect ever. And so it started this whole psychological complex of phobias around insects and bees and so on. That could be a high Kala bala experience for you.
So Kala bala will show you why certain things impact you and why others don't. That's why everyone's different in regards to how they respond to different traumas or joys and so on.
But as far as wanting Kala bala to be low, in my own life it was the most painful experiences that caused me to have the greatest growth. That's just been my experience. It's been the most painful experiences in my life, which forced me to channel aspects of myself that I did not know I had access to, which caused greater growth.
So for some people, not everyone, but for some people, the painful experiences are required for the growth. For other people, like the people who write the books that say "Just surrender and everything is going to be unicorns and rainbows", it's not going to be the painful things. And that's because the Kala bala is going to be stronger for say Mercury or Jupiter or benefic Moon and so on.
When you're looking at Kala bala of planets this is where we have to really pull back our judgments. Someone recently on my YouTube channel said that I focus too much on Saturn because I have a strong Saturn. And that's true. But I know that's because Kala bala is impacting that for me. Whereas the other people who have stronger Venuses and so on, for Kala bala, of course the birth of their baby is going to be the most impactful thing for them. The promotion that they get that verified all the hard work they have done through schooling and working two jobs and three jobs at a time, that's going to be the most impactful thing for them.
So you can't look at Kala bala and say one is better than the other. But what Kala bala does tell you is what are the necessary experiences this particular soul, this particular jiva is going to grow and change from.
So it's pointing in the direction of how is this person want to grow and change? What are the planets that are going to indicate that. Rather than should you have high or low Kala bala?
[00:49:01] Does Vedic Astrology disempower those with low Venus Chesta bala?
[00:49:01] Fiona Marques: All right. I've got one last one to ask you about, which is Venus and Chesta bala. And we talked about Chesta bala is like the confidence that someone has with a planet. And when it's with Venus, that would be about value. The value that they feel for themself.
The description of low Venus Chesta Bala that this is the kind of person who might allow themselves to be the butt of poor jokes or be a bit of a pushover, that other people are treating them with a lack of respect.
[00:49:30] Ryan Kurczak: But I guess I'm also aware
[00:49:33] Fiona Marques: that it can be quite empowering to realize that sometimes these abusive actions have everything to do with the other person.
It has nothing to do with them allowing that to happen. It's that other people are operating on another dynamic of consciousness and we're right there. So
tell me a little bit about outsourcing their sense of value to the way other people treat them.
[00:50:01] Ryan Kurczak: If I walk down the road and if someone comes up and just smacks me in the head with a board I'm not walking around, afraid and thinking that's going to happen, but it just happened to me. All right. Why did it happen? I don't know. Someone needed some money, whatever. Is it my fault? Oh, in the law of karma, we can say everything's your fault, but I'm not going to spend that much time thinking about it. But if crazy shit happens to you every single day for 80 years, that might not necessarily be just a fluke. What we need to do is step back. We need to ask ourselves, we need to look at situations and say, "Could I be stronger? Could I be more secure in my values?" And if that's the case, then one needs to find a way to do that. Or a person might say, "You know what? That was a fluke. It just happened". And then time goes on.
At the end of the day, we just have to decide, are we living the best way we can in a life that we can believe in about ourselves and recognize that sometimes crazy shit happens.
Ultimately with Venus, Venus is about making choices which lead to higher fulfillment. And the trouble with that is that's a razor's edge. You have to go moment by moment. And you have to acknowledge, am I doing that? And you can't go on autopilot because the second you go on autopilot, then all of your karma it's like a wave that rolls in on top of you. And you have to keep going and keep going.
Strengthening your Venus, paying attention to Venus, trying to live in a way that is supportive of a good life. And the way to do that ultimately is to practice the Yamas and Niyamas of yoga. This is from my perspective.
People ask, what is the purpose of life? It's not to HAVE all of these things. The purpose of a human life, from birth until death, once you become conscious and aware of this... The purpose of a human life is to live in harmlessness, and truthfulness, and contentment, non possessiveness, studying yourself, the Svadhyayas, self study, practicing ways to keep yourself strong and healthy, surrender to the infinite, to God, to the divine, however, that's real to you. The Yamas and Niyamas - if you live those every moment of your life to the best of your ability, no matter what you can write down in your biography, you have achieved the purpose of your human life. And that's ultimately what Venus is about.
[00:52:11] Conclusion and Farewell
[00:52:11] Fiona Marques: This is what I find fascinating about Vedic Astrology. And what drew me to studying Vedic Astrology was not really to become an astrologer, but to spend time contemplating how does this whole system of karma work? And Shadbhala is a great way to drill down more deeply into that. Yeah. It's been fantastic to hear your answers to that.
So thank you so much for your time, Ryan. I'm looking forward to the next time we get together.
[00:52:36] Ryan Kurczak: It was great to be here. Thank you, Fiona.
[00:52:38] Fiona Marques: Bye everyone.