S4 Ep 4 - Vedic Astrology Insights into Menopause
I really enjoyed chatting with Laura Barat about the connection between menopause and Vedic astrology. The Menopausal transition can serve as a trigger into awareness if we are are on auto-pilot autopilot mode induced by the hectic pace of life.
For example, Laura got me thinking about how we're often caught in this relentless pursuit of external validation and ownership of material things. It’s a familiar pattern—always striving for more, yet feeling like it's never quite enough or we’re never quite enough. Laura pointed out how media and societal beliefs can really trap us in this cycle, making us anxious and constantly chasing after things that we think will give us personal power but don’t. Saturn is instrumental in helping us realise what we ‘are not’. So it’s not surprising that Laura highlighted Saturn as a key planet in perimenopause, menopause and aging. This was one of my main take-aways from our conversation - “How can I use this perimenopausal transition to release even more of ‘what I am not’?”
The second thing that Laura shared that gave me a whole new framework of understanding was her insights about hot flashes and how she used them as a cue to turn inward, rather than simply endure them. When a hot flash was on its way, instead of feeling overwhelmed, she practiced what she called 'solar retrieval'. This process involved focusing on what she wanted to recapture—her energy, her essence—and expelling the traumas and pain given by other people (experiences that never belonged to her, but instead belonged to the perpetrators) and letting go of anything that didn't serve her. It’s like taking a deep breath and choosing to release all that chaotic ‘not-me’ energy.
What really struck me was the idea that menopause, often seen as a daunting phase, can actually be an incredible opportunity for self-discovery. It’s all about shifting the focus from external validation to inner wisdom, calm and intuition. By doing this, we have the chance to not only manage menopausal symptoms but to find our strength within. It’s empowering, and it’s something we all could use a bit more of in our lives.
What do you think? I'd love for you to take a moment to reflect on where you're expending your energy and how you might release or recapture it. Maybe this is your call to embrace those challenging moments and turn them into times of growth. If Laura's approach speaks to you, Vedic Astrology could be a new tool for your journey to inner peace and empowerment.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences. How do you manage to keep your cool in the face of life's challenges? And if you’ve tried methods like solar retrieval, share your journey. Let's learn from each other and continue exploring these unique perspectives.
Menopause and Vedic Astrology
[00:00:00] Introduction and Welcome[00:00:00] Introduction and Guest Welcome
[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hello everyone. Welcome to "The Vedic Astrology Podcast". My name is Fiona Marques. Today I'm delighted to be joined by fellow Vedic Astrologer, Laura Barat. Laura, welcome back to "The Vedic Astrology Podcast".
[00:00:15] Laura Barat: Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
[00:00:18] Fiona Marques: It's been a while since we've had you on the show and just remind everyone a little bit about the kind of Astrology that you're into and how people may have come across you already.
[00:00:29] Laura Barat: I do Tropical Vedic Astrology. I do the healing aspect of it, the counseling aspect of it, and also predictions. I like to make predictions. And I've been doing this for a very long time, almost 30 years now. And I have actually branched out into other realms of Astrology and I incorporate some of those techniques into my practice. I just love Astrology. It doesn't really matter where it's coming from. I started with and become an expert in Tropical Vedic, but if I see other types of Astrology, I use those as well. So that work, that I've tested in that work. So I've been doing that.
And also I'm creating classes now to eventually put up a subscription service to a school. So I'm teaching all of my techniques. They're not ready yet, but they will be soon. If you check back at my website, you'll see when they come up. I'll have a subscription service and I'm going to be sharing all of my knowledge that I have gained by doing this for so many years.
[00:01:36] Fiona Marques: I'm so excited to hear that, Laura, because I've learned so much from you and for people that follow the podcast and support me on Patreon will know that last year we did a whole year of Vashaphal using the Solar Return techniques as a way of understanding a motivational phrase for each member of the group. And we went through for a whole year and that was all based on the video course that I did with you on Vashaphal. So I'm super excited that you'll be sharing more courses and just for people listening, what is your website?
[00:02:10] Laura Barat: It's LauraBaratAstrologer.com. So my name is L A U R A B A R A T Barat astrologer. com.
[00:02:22] Fiona Marques: Great. And we'll put that in the notes as well, but just in case for everybody listening, you definitely want to keep your eye out for the new subscription service.
Meanwhile, it was in the context of doing Vashaphal last year that I reached out to Laura and we had a chat about Sahams, didn't we? About the Punya Saham and how to calculate it and we went through some more. And as we were in that conversation, I dropped in that I was really interested in this transition of perimenopause and menopause itself, because I find myself in that period of time in life. And I'm definitely enjoying experiencing myself in new ways, growing in certain ways, letting go of certain other things. It's a very stimulating time in life as an adult to go through such a significant change.
And I'm interested in understanding what Vedic Astrology can share with us about this transition in a woman's life and also what Mythology might support that and what wisdom we can tap into to reclaim this transition as something that is empowering, a springboard to the next part of our journey. And until now, I haven't really been exposed that much to Mythology and Astrology around menopause. So I reached out to Laura and asked if she would be willing to come and talk to me a little bit about it. And here we are.
So with that kind of framework, it's pretty broad, are you also interested in this transition? And how do you think it fits with Astrology and Mythology?
[00:04:00] Exploring Menopause in Vedic Astrology and the role of Saturn and Rahu
[00:04:00] Laura Barat: It is an extremely significant time in a person's life, and it is a rite of passage, it's an initiation, and it's a biological process. And most of what is out there about menopause is all within the realm of extreme negativity. And it scares people.
And that's why I think it's important to get out the psychological and mystical and spiritual connection that menopause points to or indicates rather than telling people, "Oh, everything goes downhill from here". It's actually the opposite of that.
And I'll just start with an example for what menopause is, the symptoms of menopause and how they relate to Mythologies around the Crone.
So there's three planets associated with menopause and the Crone stage. One of them is Saturn. Of course. Saturn rules old age, but it's for both sexes as for both, It's for everyone. Saturn rules out for everyone. And it's not specifically for women. But it does have a bearing on how our old age progresses, especially after age 70, because that's when we go into a Saturn period. But Saturn just rules aging in general and the process of letting things go and getting rid of things and dissolving attachments.
When Saturn transits this 12th house, which is a two and a half year transit, usually you go through a period of things come to their natural end. You just start to naturally detach from certain things in your life. Usually they are around the houses that Saturn rules, but not always. And so the whole letting go process, the process of shedding or getting rid of things that don't belong in your life anymore because they aren't part of you, they aren't who you are as an individual and so you're going to allow them to just leave your life. That's Saturn. So Saturn has a big role in that area.
Then the second planet that is menopause, and to me, that is the biggest indicator of menopause is Rahu. And the reason that is, is because Rahu is female, specifically female, and Rahu gives the results of Saturn. So Rahu carries a lot of those connotations of what Saturn means as well. Saturn is a separating planet, and so is Rahu. Now, Rahu also indicates things that have to do with psychic powers and different planes of existence and witchcraft and all that kind of stuff. Not to say that every woman that goes through menopause is going to move in that direction. That's not what I'm saying, but when we go through this processwhere we cannot produce children anymore, and we, us, human beings as mammals, so female humans and whales, and specific types of whales like killer whales, false killer whales, a few other types of whales are the only mammals that go through menopause. They say that menopause, because we go through this, allows us to live longer. So when we lose this ability to have children and we transition from the mother stage, I don't even like to say mother because a lot of women are not mothers. You have the maiden and then you have the kind of middle age part of life and then you have the Crone age. But when we transition between that, we actually go through an initiation and it's a spiritual initiation and it has been long forgotten.
When we were menstruating a few days before the period comes they say the doors between the worlds open and you start to get a lot of really strong intuitions. It's just a very psychic time. Now when we stop menstruating those connections become part of us all the time. And in the Celtic tradition when you went through your Crone age, they immediately thought you had these special powers. And they were honored. They were appreciated. Youfelt good about entering this part of your life because it was something that was honored and appreciated and recognized and validated.
Now, the only thing is because we live in dire materialism, (and, not to say that technology is bad. I don't think that I want to make sure or that having things in your life to make your life easier is something negative or I don't want to be a Neo Luddite, that's not what I'm talking about. It is), there is a grip on people through media and through certain types of belief systems that makes materialism a big part of our lives and focuses people on to what they don't have. And you're always in this state of anxiety of trying to acquire something that will give you some personal power. Where we already have that personal power. And we we're made to believe that we were lacking and all of these different ways, especially when women go through this change because then you're leaving behind certain fertility and youthfulness and things like that, that are all glorified. But when you move into that other stage you're giving up that for something even higher. And that is the wisdom that is certain connections to nature that we can automatically see. Some people call it intuition. Or a certain divinity that we can always access. And a certain calmness.
So when women start researching menopause, when they start feeling the symptoms, they say, "Oh, your hair is going to fall out. You're going to get angry. You're going to be mad at everybody.Just a lot of negative and extreme things happening". And I didn't notice a lot of those symptoms for me personally. And some people do have quite a few symptoms, but the one thing that does happen, that seems to be universal, is a couple of things, hot flashes, and then feelings of anxiousness, irritability, anxiety. And I experienced that minimally, but I did experience it.
[00:11:34] Understanding Hot Flashes and The Recapitulation
[00:11:34] Laura Barat: And the hot flashes is something that I got really interested in. And I wanted to understand that more on a mystical spiritual level. And all of these things started coming when I was researching it, that I had learned about 20 years prior. So they don't really know why you get hot flashes. I just want to say that out front. They don't know why. They'll say, "Oh, it's because your estrogen is low or it's lowering". That's not actually true. They don't know that for sure. They're just guessing. If you go really do the research and go into the studies they've done on it, they have no idea why you get hot and have night sweats. And some will say, "Oh, you need to take certain things like black cohosh or whatever to try to up your estrogen and then they'll minimize". And one reason they think it's linked to estrogen is because women who do HRT, which is Hormonal Replacement Therapy, tend to have a lessening of those symptoms of hot flashes and night sweats. They haven't linked it for sure, that it's not set in stone. It's not something they can prove, basically.
So I started thinking about the hot flashes. And when we get hot , so that's immediately associated with Mars. And Mars is a planet also that cuts you off from things. And in the Mythology with they have in Irish Mythology, it's called the Cailleach, a Gaelic word. And that's the Crone. And then in the Greek, they have Hecate. And they're, both have all of this strong power. They even say that the Cailleach created the country of Scotland. She's like the progenitor of Scotland.
But what happens is the women, they are disconnected. They have gone through a spiritual initiation where they aren't as connected to have these familial and friendship, emotional connections that are overwhelming. And it's like they've gone through what I call the recapitulation. It's it's basically was mentioned before by someone named Carlos Castaneda, based on other traditions in indigenous cultures and certain Amerindian cultures. But they do have basically the same thing in Tibet from the Bon religion.
But basically what it is it's a breath technique where you relive your life and you breathe in and breathe out and you turn your head from side to side and you take in from the remembering things intensely, especially experiences that were traumatic, you take back your energy and then you give back whatever energy somebody else was leaving in you from whatever situation that was.
And in a lot of ways, that's what they call the soul retrieval. It's very connected to that as well. It's also connected to a more modern technique called EMDR where it's rapid, where you move your eyes from side to side. So you're moving from side to side. And you're breathing with that. Breathing in and out. And that's the recapitulation.
Essentially what it does is it gives you back your energy. It gives you back your wholeness. And when you have that you have the stamina to enter into other worlds. And see other planes of existence. And you start losing the, I don't want to say ego because most people would say ego. All right. But ego is actually was something we need. There's a difference between ego and self importance and always getting offended by things and losing energy through your emotional attachment to how you want to be viewed. That's basically what it is.So this is what's happening when you're getting hot flashes, especially when it triggers memories. I started to analyze when I would start to get hot flashes and it's usually because you think of a memory. Something triggers a memory. Just, it can be just something really fleeting and something reminds you, or someone says something to you that reminds you of something that happened before. And it doesn't have to be a negative memory. It's just a memory. That is the automatic method of recapitulation. Women go through this at menopause without having to do anything. After the process, they feel a lot more detachment and it just healthy detachment.
And that isn't, and they aren't, if they're letting go of these experiences and what you have to, you consciously have to bring up some memories that were not that pleasant. And then let them go and breathe in with that hot flash. That's what they're for. Because that's what the heat does. Mars is heat in the body. It's also the electricity in the nerves. When we get a fever, that's Mars. That's the body's way of burning out the sickness or the illness. So it raises our temperature. And in the same thing happens during the hot flash and hot flashes, it's burning out something. And what it's burning out is our unhealthy connection where we left our energy as women before going through this transition.
To me, that is something that has been lost in the knowledge. It is very difficult to find. You get a lot of modern woo, on menopause when you try to connect it. But you have to go back into the myths and the stories to really get a clearer picture of how women can go through this and not be afraid of it. And honor it in a way that it should be honored and care for themselves.
[00:18:01] Fiona Marques: It's so interesting, isn't it being in a woman's body? All of that reproductive, fertile, all of those organs are completely hidden. so the experience transitioning from a girl's body to the fertile body also happens in this hidden, or introverted kind of way. It comes and happens to you without an instruction manual, right? It just transforms.
And there used to be in generations like my mother's generation and before there was a lot of shame about beginning to menstruate, right? It was something to keep hidden and it was something inconvenient and that nobody should know what's going on with you. And if there's any evidence of it, it should be, invisible to anybody. Absolutely nobody should know that it's happening. And I feel that that has in my generation and the children that we have now, it's such a comfortableness. And hopefully that will continue. That this is a human experience and "I'm experiencing it right now and it's affecting me in this way and it's messy and, I'm not quite it the same person that I am when I'm menstruating as I am the other weeks of the month". There's a bit more comfort that our experience, we can extrovert it. This female experience, we can be more comfortable with it.
And I think that I've also witnessed that during that fertile period of life, I feel like this generation has also been a bit more comfortable with vocalizing the experience of miscarriage and the experience of fertility. That's not always a hundred percent every time a healthy baby that goes on to live a full life. I think there's been a bit more honesty as well about the percentage of miscarriages that are perfectly normal and perfectly healthy. And part of every fertile cycle is the body has a mechanism for understanding whether this is viable or not viable and how it's going to deal with it. Just that. wisdom of the body.
And I also feel we are regaining some wisdom and power around menopause and finding it something empowering. Something not to be ashamed of. We don't have to hide it and we don't have to pretend that we're the same person before as we are after and that we are in a transition. So I hope that continues. This kind of reclaiming and like you say, returning to the ancient stories that helped us.
But before we go and hear some ancient stories, which is what I'm really looking forward to, let me just come back to a couple of things that we've mentioned in this part of the discussion.
You talked about three planets. Is that Saturn, Rahu and Mars? Are those the three that you're referring to?
[00:20:26] The Earth in Astrology
[00:20:26] Laura Barat: No, the third planet is the Earth.
[00:20:29] Fiona Marques: the Earth becomes so important. It rules all humans, because we're all living here. Actually, it's part of us. Cause we eat what is coming from the Earth, breathe the air, we'll drink the water. We are the Earth.
[00:20:42] Laura Barat: This is a part of Astrology that is not really used that much. It's starting to be a little more, but basically it's taking the Earth and looking at the constellation exactly opposite the Sun. Some people call it the Earth's shadow. But that's what's considered to be the Earth's position in Astrology. And you can use this in Tropical Astrology. You can do it let's say, using my example, I have my Sun in Pisces, so my Earth would be in Virgo.
But the way I do it, and some other astrologers, is you take the Earth and you look at the constellation, rather than the Tropical sign. For me, that would be the Lion. I like to use, the animal name for the constellation rather than saying Leo, because Leo is the Tropical sign. The constellation is the Lion.
[00:21:44] Fiona Marques: So all that you would do find your sun sign and to see what constellation it's in that's usually 24 degrees behind. Just do the Sidereal method. But you don't use Sidereal, you use the constellations. Because Sidereal signs are equal 30 degree sections. And the constellation of Virgo is huge. It's 90º or I can't remember. But it's a huge constellation. Then the constellation of the Crab is very small. So that's what you would do.
[00:22:17] Laura Barat: What the Earth symbolizes in a chart is what we have to give. What we have to give to our community, the Earth, other people in general and our community at large. What are our gifts that are going to manifest on the Earth. And those gifts are seen through that constellation. It's not psychological, like Tropical signs, psychological tendencies and characteristics. It's more gifts you're given or potentials. The potential you have to give to the Earth or all the creatures on it.
And it doesn't even have to involve other humans. It can be for animals or, for oceans or whatever. Or the knowledge you have to give. The talents you have to develop and give back to the Earth.
And that usually comes later in life. And after the woman has gone through the change (has gone through menopause. I wish there was another word we could associate with it because there's such a negative connotation menopause. But anyway that's all we have for now). But that those potentials easily come out more because you have the lessened attachments.
[00:23:48] Emotional and Spiritual Transition
[00:23:48] Laura Barat: AndI joined all of these menopause groups on Facebook cause I wanted to see people talking about it, what they were saying, what they were going through. How the average woman experiences this if they aren't really into what we're into Astrology or spirituality in general. Just see what they're saying.
[00:24:11] Fiona Marques: And I noticed that they were very irritable. One woman said it very well. She said, "I just want everybody to go away". And then she said, "I can see being an old Crone and going off and living in the forest and growing my herbs and making my potions". That's what she said. "I can totally relate to that". And that's it. We become detached, and our emotional involvement is lessened. But if we still try to hang onto that and try to feel the same way we did before, then I think that causes problems. I think it's so interesting that sometimes you hear it said that women go through menopause so they can look after other people's children, look after their grandchildren or whatever it is. And I'm in the process, so maybe I've got a skewed perspective and maybe after, after I go through this, I will feel differently. But as I go through this process, I feel less interested in looking after children. It's not that I don't like them, but I don't feel that kind of magnetic fertility pull that I want to sacrifice my interests and everything and my time and whatever, and my resources to raise children. That's definitely what I felt during my fertile period. I never been happier than when I was a young mom and it was just glorious. I loved it. But as I go through this transition. I'm very happy that kids are around and I really want them to have a future. And, I guess you become more interested in providing a planet that's sustainable for life to continue growing rather than specifically wanting to give your time to the daily care of children. So I think it's very interesting that it's sometimes advertised that menopausal women are child carers or something. I'm like, I don't know. That doesn't seem to click with me.
[00:26:08] Laura Barat: Yeah. I don't agree with that. I really don't. Especially if, if it's becoming more difficult. Because if it's a difficult transition and a lot of times, it will be for some people if they haven't dealt with some of the issues and some of the traumas they've experienced. If they haven't dealt with that and tried to heal that, it can be really difficult. We're all walking around with wounds but when you're going through the menopause, your body... I absolutely am convinced that your body wants to heal those things and wants you to purge the pain so you can move on into wisdom. That's another name is a wise woman, the Cailleach was wise woman and you move into wisdom by forming a healthy detachment. And you're connected to the Source, the Earth. And through that connection, you're able to give in a way that is beneficial to whoever is open to it. But you're not doing it out of a personal. I'll just give myself an example cause I've been through it andI'm not triggered and offended nearly as much as I was. And I can see the process of life.
I was thinking about watching the Earth and going through the ages and the erosion and the development of mountains. And just think of all that massive amount of time? Billions of years. And how insignificant certain things are. And that when you losing a lot of your energy, when you don't have that healthy detachment, that is usually aroundan image we want to promote or that we want other people to see about us. That's a huge energy drain. And then on top of that I think a lot of people go through some severe physical symptoms, menopausal physical symptoms like losing sleep, insomnia there's just basically aches and general aches and pains.That is also attached to the body changing. It wants to metamorphose into the wisdom goddess that we all have in us. But in order to do that, some of those past traumas need to be purged.
And that, of course, is the job of Saturn. And then also Rahu. Rahu is going to give new experiences. And pushes us to feel something new as the old is being purged away. But the ones who have serious physical symptoms, that can be because of the attachment and the the traumas that haven't been dealt with yet. And it's a prompt for you to deal with those things. But also we have a really, a very toxic diet. Not you guys so much in Europe.
[00:29:08] Releasing what you are not
[00:29:08] Laura Barat: But here in the United States, that's a real problem. And it's all connected. The food you eat your physical body. Your emotional state, your habits, and your habitual reactions to certain things that have developed from traumas that have not been healed.
That's what they call self sabotage. And so when a woman reaches menopause, the body is doing the recapitulation, like I was saying before, but also it's doing a shake off, like a shimmer a, a shimmy. It's wanting to expel through the heat and burn away what doesn't belong anymore.
Also the obsessively concerned with looks. There's different circles and types of people. Some people don't really, aren't really that concerned with it. But I know that there are a lot of women who are still very concerned about how they look after they go through menopause. Andthere's nothing wrong with that. Wanting to look your best, there's nothing wrong with that.I'm not criticizing it at all. But when it's causing distress, and causing a woman to discredit herself or devalue herself. Then that is a problem. Because it's just a natural aging process. And the by product of that detachment is a less concern with being regarded as beautiful or pretty or sexy or, whatever, that we had up until this process.
So the Earth, I was saying the Earth has a lot to do with menopause and it's connected to the wise women or the Cailleach, as they call them, or Hecate. So you find your innate talents. What's your gifts are that you can give through the constellation of the Earth when you were born, which is opposite the Sun's position. So they each have something to give. For the Lion, it is a certain fight and fierceness. Or the beauty that kills or the beauty that fights. The power that is able to fight for something that's important. But every position, in constellational position points to something.
Now, if you happen to have the Earth in Virgo, that's a really good sign because Virgo is actually, the wisdom goddess in a lot of traditions, the Virgin, I should say, not for the Virgin represents the wisdom goddess. So that really connects a person to carrying those secrets, carrying those mysteries through generations. Usually that means that the goddess will speak through her directly. Especially when she's out in nature. So the sign of Virgo represents a young girl, a prepubescent girl who's innocent, connected to the Earth and it's got this really strong innocence quality about it. It's providing life all the time and not asking for anything in return. But that's, if you find your constellation, there is a different lesson, different talent, different potential. That can be expressed in the later years.
[00:32:37] The Chart and Timing including Nodal Returns
[00:32:37] Fiona Marques: And so can people have a look at that combination of Saturn and Rahu and someone's Earth position? Are those factors that people could look at in their chart that gives some insight into their transition?
[00:32:52] Laura Barat: Absolutely, definitely. There's some really interesting parts of this. So you can look at the state of Saturn in your chart to show you some of the lessons that will come up as you go through this transition.
Also, the position of Rahu in your natal chart. But also in transit, because as you go through this process, so they say it's a year, right? You have to go through a year of not having your period, then you went through menopause. That is a transit or more or less of one of the Nodes and Jupiter actually takes a year, but the Nodes take a year and a half to move through a sign or a house. So it's really important as you go through this to see where Rahu is transiting, and that's going to be a theme that you carry into your wisdom years. And that you in a way where you really have a lot to say about it and where you can give a lot of wisdom and higher knowledge around it.
Some people, like in my case, I'm going through the Nodal Return. And I don't know if we were talking about this before, cause I, I love the Nodal Return is huge. It is, it's much more important than the Saturn return even.
So it happens every 18.6 years. That's a cycle of the Nodes. And there's a half Nodal Return, which is also extremely important. That's a 9.3 year cycle. When you have a Nodal Return, you take the exact moment (and you're using the true Node setting). And so would just cast a chart like you would for a Solar Return, but just do it for the Nodal Return and do it for the half Nodal Return from your place of birth, not where you live. And that's going to show you a definite theme for the next 9.3 or 18.6 years.
And the Nodes exist because of the Earth. And there's a whole branch of Astrology, (and this is one of the classes I'm going to teach), which can just be done with the Sun and Moon and Earth and the Nodes alone without any other planets. And that Nodal Return becomes very important to see those next years in your life. The evolution you're going to go through. I would even say it's almost like you cast another birth chart.
And if you go back and do those Nodal Returns and half Nodal Returns and look and see, "Oh yeah, my life had this really strong emphasis on the 5th House" or "Really had this certain yoga that made me successful in my career" or whatever it is. You're going to see that in a Nodal Return. And the position of the Nodes becomes the most important.
And everybody's going through a Nodal Return around the age of 55, 56. Then nine years before that 47.
[00:36:04] Fiona Marques: That transitional period where there's some irregularity to your menstruation, but more or less, you're still menstruating, but you're beginning to get some hot flashes, you're still fertile butnot to the rate that you were. So that could be a nine year period. Perimenopause, it's not a one year process. It's a winding down of the hormonal journey that you've been on, it takes time for all of those different checks and balances that were there to find new position.
[00:36:31] Laura Barat: You're right. The perimenopause is building up to that time. Yeah. When your period can be a little wacky, you're having some menopausal symptoms, I went through that, I would say a good two years before I stopped. It's very different for everybody. And that is also an arrow pointing to how significant this is. What life change this is because some people go through perimenopause symptoms for many years.
[00:36:59] Fiona Marques: I guess some people need to have a hysterectomy or something for a medical reason, and they go through everything all at once.
[00:37:06] Laura Barat: Right.
[00:37:06] Fiona Marques: So it makes me think about, whether that Saturn, Rahu and the Earth sometimes for some people all of those indicators will be in the same part of the chart at the same time. And for other people, they'll be a bit spread out and the process is happens in different phases. So something for me to research as I'm looking at charts and go back and have a look at my own chart.
[00:37:25] The Role of Wise Women in Mythology
[00:37:25] Fiona Marques: One of the things that came to me as you were speaking was, I think when I when I decided to have a child when I became pregnant it really blew my whole conception of how incredible it is that the human body can grow another human being that will then be born and live. It's a really miraculous power that only the female body has.
And were talking about at the very beginning of this conversation, there's a lot of societal and cultural imagery and cultural Mythology modern Mythology that tells you what it is to be a woman and what it is to be attractive or to be useful as a woman, all this kind of stuff.
But when you get the chance to be pregnant and give birth, if that's something that you have in your life path, I found that it was eye opening. And that I really feel in this masculine society that I've grown up in, although I agree it's changing, I come from a lineage that has been through that patriarchaltime, really femaleness, female bodies rightly should be the goddess. They should be honored. Really, women should be at the center of everything. They should be honored. Their fertility and their needs should be paramount. Because nobody can do what we can do. It's just miraculous.
And yet through this historic journey humanity is on and the bit that I happen to be conscious in now and this patriarchal background, women have this second class citizen role and, being a mother is not important. And in fact, you won't earn as much and you won't get as much superannuation and you won't get paid for anything you're doing.
This fertility power is completely not acknowledged. It's diminished. And our fertility power becomes about our attractiveness and our sexiness. "How attractive are we?" That becomes the only bit that survived this journey is how attractive we are. And you look at those clay figures from more tribal or hunter gatherer communities of the fertility goddess and she's round. It's all about how round and full she is. And yet our version of being sexy and attractive has been modeled around maybe a more iconic Barbie doll type of shape that it's hard go of.
But I was also thinking about not only has this journey that we've been on where femininity has been pushed under or has minimized this amazing goddess power that we have of procreation. But it has also minimized the wise woman who would be the herbal doctor of the community, who would be the person that would solve complex problems, complex, life problems, like either health problems or psychological problems, it would be the wise women in the community who had a role of healer, who had a role of doctor.
And that the way Western medicine has become also very detached from nature and has become "Oh, I treat this very specific thing that can be researched and proved and I can write papers about. And when you walk into my room and I'm the specialist, I'm just looking at this one thing that I'm trained in and in a very detached way, I'm going to improve that one thing".
The way that has been removed from nature and has been removed from the role of women. And obviously now we have many women doctors, but this version of Western medical doctors, they were originally all were male. And they took away like the midwifery and the herbal and all that kind of stuff. And so whatever we're going to call this patriarchal journey that we've come from has not found ways to honor the goddess, not just in the fertile period, but also in the wise woman period. And that's why in many ways, we don't look forward to menopause because the only thing that the patriarchal thing has said that women is useful for is to be attractive.
And so you (Right) if you're naturally going to lose that, then where is your use? Whereas if we had grown up in a, "Wow, you're going to become the doctor of our community. You're going to hold all the knowledge. You're going to be solving the problems that no one can solve. We really look up to you. It's really important to have you here". Then this transition becomes something attractive that we want to experience. We're proud to reach this point.
[00:41:43] Laura Barat: Yeah. That's what it should be. Because, saying that it's so awful and terrible is doing a horrible disservice. It's a criminal thing to have people so afraid of it. It just make me a little angry. But
[00:41:57] Fiona Marques: That's the Leo. That's the Lion.
[00:41:59] Laura Barat: I know. We are coming out that though, I think we are. When we say we aren't useful because we lose our attractiveness. And that's just for coming from a men's perspective. And not even all men. But it's coming from a male perspective. And that's the thing too, when you go through this transition, you don't really care what men are projecting on you to be. You don't care at all. I just don't. That's one of the things that got burned out of me.
What I would do when a hot flash was coming on, is think about something I wanted to recapitulate and take my energy back and expel the foreign energy or do my solar retrieval.
See Rahu also rules going beyond limitations. Rahu rules magic, but it also rules technology and it allows us to go beyond limitations. And that's what I think that this menopausal process is. Spiritual initiation. It's going beyond limitations because we have a certain personal power. It's reclaiming our Shakti. Shakti is the actual energy in the body. Shakti means power. So it's a physical thing. Everything is material. It shows up materially. The power is material.
[00:43:21] Fiona Marques: You were talking about Saturn being a planet of interest when we're talking about aging. And then you mentioned, especially after 70. But in talking to you today, I'm realizing it's interesting that actually at 50, we come into our Sun age in that model.
And so it really is indicating that as most women will be going through their menopause transition around that 50 year old point, either a bit before or a bit after, even that model that says we, our Sun becomes, the ruler of that age from 50 to 70, is showing us that the true soul, the true inspiration of who we truly are as this woman that we've incarnated this time, becomes available when we've transitioned out of menopause. That, that's actually when we're the most likely to be able to live in true inspiration.
That everything we did before was great and was very helpful and did contribute to the procreation of everybody's spiritual journey. Other consciousness wants to come here and have a spiritual experience. And we've enabled that. But the Sun age coinciding with 50 coinciding with menopause, really tells us that our true purpose starts now once we've stopped being fertile.
[00:44:38] Laura Barat: Absolutely. I totally agree with that.
[00:44:40] Celtic and Greek Mythological Stories of Post Menopausal Women
[00:44:40] Fiona Marques: We've talked now about some of the planetary aspects. But you alluded earlier to Mythology that can also help us understand the power of this transition from our fertile years to our wise woman years.
[00:44:52] Laura Barat: So in the Celtic tradition, they have a lot on the Crone, they call her the Cailleachthe hag, they even call her hag. We associate it with a negative connotation, but it wasn't, when they came out with that word. And just had a lot of power.
I She created countries. She knew when the warriors were going to die. She made certain tools for them. There's this whole legend around her making the armor and making the arrows for the warriors that were going to go into battle the next day. And she knew if she knew which ones were going to die, basically. And herbs, there's a lot of Mythology around that.
Now the Hecate, which is the Crone goddess, basically, it's not a young woman, it's an older woman that's gone through menopause. And is the goddess of herbs, herbal healing, and also, just being a wild woman, offering her wisdom to solve problems, like you were talking before, in the community. And they're all connected by their spiritual psychic abilities. Their abilities to see what will heal. And somebody told me this, that these wise women, when you went through this process, you became a wise woman and you were able to divine what would heal. You were in communication with the Earth, so you knew which herbs to take or which plants would heal. Which ones were poisonous and what did what basically. And this person said to me that everything we need is right within our environment. The healing power of the Earth is in every environment. And if we get sick or, have some issues, our cure is within walking distance based on what's growing there. And that's the power of the Earth. It has just everything we need. And that's why these women, and Hecate especially was able to see what would work and what would cure. And what would not. And also able to give certain potions to open up the doors between the worlds.
And then also they say, if you see the Cailleach, like she will appear to you, that's, this is another myth. She'll appear to people before they go through a major life change, or something really unexpected happens in their lives. If you're connected to that, you can see her. And it can be, just if you're downtown or in town or something, and you're walking and taking a walk and you just see an old lady and it's weird. She gives you a weird look. That, that could suffice for having that experience.
And that happened to me right before I met my husband. I met the man I was going to marry and I saw her, the Cailleach.
[00:48:06] Fiona Marques: It was really wild. She was you just know it because they give you a look like I know you. And it just could be somebody on the street. But it's very overwhelming mysterious.
[00:48:21] Laura Barat: And also when they had the Oracle at Delphi. All right, so that's also Greek Mythology. She was also a witch woman. When they make movies about it, they always have a very young, attractive woman. But she was an old witch woman.
That's the Mythology behind it, that they all have psychic ability. And, to me, that's because we're in that state of those few days before our period. That is with us the rest of our lives. We're always in that state. If we know how to handle it, if we know how to honor it, and get in touch with those things. And a lot of it has to do with the healing process.
[00:49:03] Personal Metaphor for Menopause
[00:49:03] Fiona Marques: You can help me work on my personal Mythology about what's happening. I feel like since I've been going through this experience of perimenopause, it's occurred to me that the uterus or the fertile organs, it's reminding me of a potter's wheel. That on this potter's wheel you need to keep the clay moist and spinning. And as long as you keep the clay moist and spinning, that potter's wheel will just turn out vessel after vessel. And during that fertile period of your life, that's your service. Is to keep your uterus as this moist, spinning production capacity. And the hormones in your body ensure that happens.
But then as I'm transitioning through this perimenopausal period, you begin to feel this drying out. And you're realizing that this spinning potter's wheel is going to stop spinning. And to me, then the hot flashes seem to be like the kiln that is firing the final vessel that you're making on this potter's wheel. And that vessel to me is like the clay pots of the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is where you can preserve all the knowledge. That
[00:50:22] Laura Barat: Yeah. Interesting.
[00:50:24] Fiona Marques: you don't want that to be moist and spinning. Your capacity now is to hold wisdom. And that the Dead Sea Scrolls were preserved because they were in clay and in a very dry environment, right? And they survived thousands of years. And so we're this process of drying out. And the hot flashes is like firing that final vessel, making it watertight or strong, whatever waterproofing you do when you fire pottery so that you can store wisdom.
[00:50:53] Laura Barat: That's such a great analogy.
[00:50:56] Fiona Marques: And we want to keep that tightly packed. And I think this is really important with the uterus health, isn't it? As we move into Wise Woman and that uterus is not receiving that constant moisture from the hormonal cycle, we actually need to keep that area of the pelvic floor and the pelvis itself and the abdomen, there needs to be a kind of health like these tightly packed scrolls, we need to look after that abdominal and pelvic area. And in menopause talk about gaining belly fat, like it's one of those things that, you know and that we might, for the first time in our life, need to work on keeping all of those inner ligaments strong and healthy because otherwise the uterus can drop and women can have problems with the pelvic floor. So it seems to me that there's something about packing in thiswisdom of the Dead Sea Scrolls and holding it tight. It's like from that core powerful place of procreation, that wisdom is really valued and held close. Really maintained and sustained. So this is the Mythology that is coming through my experience of perimenopause.
[00:52:03] Laura Barat: That's such a creative insight. Really. Absolutely. I want to steal that.
[00:52:07] Astrological Houses and Signs of Menopause
[00:52:07] Laura Barat: And what about any houses or signs that you think are particularly important?
I would say, the 12th house is the house of retirement. They don't say anything about menopause, of course, it's just been ignored. But taking yourself out of the daily grind, getting away from worldly concerns, relaxation, feeling at one with everything, feeling the oneness, being detached, losing what no longer belongs, that's all the realm of the 12 powers. And of course, the 12th house is different states of consciousness, being able to see different planes of existence. Being in touch with nature and in a divine way. Being able to divine just by looking out your window and seeing what the trees are doing. That's all 12th house types of things.
And it's so funny, you were mentioning like the desert and a dry climate. That is that's Scorpio.
[00:53:04] Fiona Marques: That's what I was going to ask you. I feel like there's an 8th house, 8th sign kind of energy.
The 8th house is the ordeal in the hero's journey, isn't it? It's where you go into the cave not knowing really what you're going to face, and all you know is that when you come out the other side, if and when you come out the other side, you will be different than when you entered. And I feel like Menopause is a bit that kind of 8th energy.
[00:53:30] Laura Barat: Definitely. The 8th house is the house of transformation, especially self transformation. And Scorpio is the sign of transformation. They have phoenix related to Scorpio, too. And interestingly enough, Scorpio rules deserts. And then the scorpions only come out at night. Scorpions live in deserts.
It's interesting how what I call the "Truth Trine" with the water houses, they work in cycles. Like all of the houses, based on the elements work in a cycle. But the 4th house, the 8th house and the 12th house connected to Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces. So this is why I was talking about the recapitulation so much in the past and taking back your energy from the past because the 4th house is the beginning of the "Truth Trine". It's the beginning of our spiritual journey. And the 4th house is the house of emotional security and happiness. And the 4th house rules the Earth. What we stand. On our understanding. So when we clear out our past, when we reckon our past, then we can move to the 8th house where we go through that transformation. That major, massive transformation. Then we can move to the 12th house where we're in that state of oneness.
And then it just keeps going cycle after cycle. But it really becomes pronounced in menopause.
Wow.
[00:54:51] Concluding Thoughts on Menopause and Empowerment
[00:54:51] Fiona Marques: Laura, we have covered some territory today.
I'm sure that many people listening are going to be inspired to have a more peaceful relationship, a more empowering relationship with their transition through perimenopause and menopause.
[00:55:06] Laura Barat: Yeah, I hope so. I think it's important to get out the psychological and mystical and spiritual connection that menopause points to or indicates.
[00:55:16] Fiona Marques: Thanks so much for your time, Laura. I can't wait till the next time we get a chance to talk on "The Vedic Astrology Podcast".
[00:55:21] Laura Barat: Oh, thank you so much.
[00:55:24] Fiona Marques: But until then, bye everyone. Bye Laura. Thank you so much.
[00:55:27] Laura Barat: Bye bye. Thank you for having me.