S2 E11 - Chandra: Illuminating Moon Mythology for all with Nisha Sankaran

Chandra: Illuminating Moon Mythology for all with Nisha Sankaran

[00:00:00] Introduction and Welcome

[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques and I'm delighted to be joined today, once more, with my friend and colleague, Nisha. As we return to our exploration of Vedic Mythology. Today, we are going to have a look at the Moon Mythology that we use in Vedic Astrology. And between the two of us, see if we can navigate our way through to finding those gems and inclusive elements in the Mythology that sometimes we can find the language a little bit exclusive. So that's our goal for the day. But before we dive in, Nisha, tell us a little bit about how was your experience of being in the Podcast and having the episode go live? What's it been like in your world, the feedback around the Sun Mythology that we spoke about?

[00:00:58] Nisha Sankaran: I think the overarching opinion is that people are learning a lot not just about the, just like what Vedic Astrology is, but just symbolically how they can internalize what's going on in their lives. And it's just really opening their eyes to how Vedic Astrology can help them on a practical level.

[00:01:19] Fiona Marques: I feel since we published that episode, I've just really been seeing in the news all around me in the dynamics of our current culture all of this ideas around power. I was just saying this to Nisha, before we got on the Podcast that I feel like the Sun Mythology myth, it really has helped me understand that when someone is in that position of power, it is natural that we just do not see what's going on around us because we are in our own amazing experience of manifesting and it all feels good and all looks good and the world is going well.

And perhaps from those positions of power we don't see the experience that others are having. And I feel like the Sun's partner was trying to communicate that and the Sun just really didn't pick up on that and she was very creative in her way of dealing with it.

But I guess it's left me like, the takeaway for me is really if anyone in a minority is giving feedback to those people in power, that people in power should be listening. Because that's what the Sun Mythology is trying to tell us. That it's too easy to be in one's own world and that actually we, when we're in power, we need to be quite proactive about engaging with those people around us and what their experience is. So I've been seeing that in the news and in our current drive, strive for equality and inclusion in our culture. I've gotten heaps out of that, Sun Mythology and I hope that will be the case today with our Moon Mythology. 

[00:03:05] The value and importance of Moon Mythology as it is

[00:03:05] Fiona Marques: In case people haven't listened to the previous episode, I just wanted to emphasize that obviously these myths have survived the test of time and that is a great gift for all of us that because not all cultures myths have made it here. So this is a great thing that we have this.

On that process of these myths surviving through all of time, through the dark ages, they have picked up elements that are a little bit harder for us to digest these days. So there's lots of maybe attitudes around gender that are different from what we feel comfortable now. There's also often there's violence and there's trickery and thievery and unexpected elements. So sometimes now in the present we find those hard to deal with. But we must acknowledge that these myths have done very well to survive to this point. So let's see if we can find the archetypes that are there that have stood the test of time.

And also the second point to remember is that if you are a Vedic Astrologer, if you're studying to be a Vedic Astrologer, you'll know how useful it is to give your attention to a chart, even a difficult chart with elements that are perhaps unharmonious or violent or arrogant. And that as the Astrologer, you're going to come across these charts from time to time or regularly. And we want to build up our skill as an Astrologer to be able to stay committed to understanding that chart. And that's a little bit what Nisha and I are doing with this Mythology that perhaps on the first time that we hear it, we don't really feel very attracted to some of the elements in those stories. But we are trying to just like the Astrologer, sit with the chart for a while and see if we can pull out those themes that are helpful and useful. 

I want to really acknowledge that the myths have stood the test of time and also that it's a great practice for an Astrologer to be a little bit in the uncomfortable space of seeing things that are not familiar or that are not the way that I, the Astrologer would n normally or naturally represent those things. So it's a very good practice for us as Astrologers and we've been learning a lot. 

[00:05:29] Qualities of the Moon

[00:05:29] Fiona Marques: So just like last Podcast, let's begin by concentrating our attention on some of the fundamental qualities of Moon energy. Because in some ways, that's all the Mythology is trying to do, is give us ways to remember these unique qualities of, in this case, the Moon. And the ancients could have done that by making us just learn a big table, a big list of 450 descriptive words about the Moon.

And instead of doing that, they're much more creative and have come up with stories that illustrate some of these qualities. So I think what we want to do first is really ground ourself in these qualities so that then when we are listening to the Mythology, we can see if we could find ways to see those fundamental qualities coming through. 

And just like last time we got together, there's a lot of qualities for the Moon. So I'm going to begin by talking about some main themes that I think are in these qualities of the Moon and I invite you, Nisha to join me with the ones that I've forgotten as we go along. 

 I think when all of us begin to think about the defining qualities of the Moon, probably the thing that comes up most often, as an Astrologer, is the idea that the Moon is changeable, adaptable, and flexible.

It's something that you probably hear all the time when we think about the Moon in Vedic Astrology. And for those reasons, I guess we think those qualities relate to the Moon because in the night sky during the month, we see the Moon quite dramatically change shape. So it's very obvious that the Moon has these adaptable qualities. And how valuable it is in life to be adaptable. 

And for this reason, I think the Moon also gets associated with the mind. Because whereas we looked at the Sun last time and we spoke about the Sun, we spoke about the constancy, just always giving its brilliance.

And whereas here we have the Moon dynamically changing before our eyes from one night to the next, from one day to the next. And this reminds us of the mind because whereas our soul journey is maybe a very deep, profound constant drive in our life, our experience of the mind is a lot more changeable. That it's getting distracted by things and its attention is drawn in one way or another way.

And actually it can be quite a skill in life to learn to have a good relationship with one's mind and give it the amount of attention that is useful and productive and to not allow the mind to, to run as around like a puppy. So some of these qualities of the Moon, I think are changeable, adaptable, flexible, and the mind.

But just like we had with the Sun, we had a dichotomy going on the two poles going on at the same time, which if I remember correctly with the Sun, it was around the Sun being alone, but also the Sun creating everything all life. So it was this, doing those two things of being alone, but being very protective over creation.

And the Moon is a little bit like this too, that it's changing all the time, but actually it's endless. It's always there. And the fact that it's always changing is in fact what makes it very predictable and very reliable. This idea that the Moon is flexible and changeable is in the context of the fact that it's endless and continues every day and every night to change in its regular pattern.

So this is the first bunch of qualities. Do you identify with those qualities as well Nisha, for the Moon?

[00:09:35] Nisha Sankaran: Yeah, the thing that comes to mind is how we see, the Moon as a Full Moon. It only lasts for a short amount of time. Whereas we think of the Sun as always being very full and round. So I'm saying that it's in its full glory for a very short amount of time. So the adaptability and the changeability resonates with that kind of visual.

 It's everlasting and it's always changing, but there's always some sort of predictability to that change. Month. The phases of the Moon are the same. And I think that's telling to how our lives are to a certain extent.

[00:10:16] Fiona Marques: Eternally changing. It's a really interesting combination.

And then there's a whole bunch of qualities for the Moon around like the Mother energy of the Moon. The heart center. That quality of caring without self-interest. Being very compassionate. Gentle. We say that the Moon has no enemies. And we also associate the Moon with wealth. And we could say that the Moon is entirely lovely.

[00:10:45] Nisha Sankaran: The Mother aspect, that's always stuck in my mind and it's really interesting that the Mother aspect always, along with the material aspect. At first I thought they were like very different. But now it totally makes sense because it's the Mother is very hands-on in a very material way. Yes, in a soulful way, but also in a very, like the creation of life and seeing children out, once a child, always a child, which is also a very material way of being. So it's not only with commerce, but it's with the physicality of the body and the life-giving nature of the Moon.

[00:11:29] Fiona Marques: In getting ready for the Podcast, I was looking at understanding how it is that we only see one side of the Moon. This idea that there's this face of the Moon that we see and then there's inverted commas the "Dark Side" of the Moon. So that if we think about that, the Earth goes around the Sun and we call that a year, right?

So the Earth's orbit around the Sun takes a year. And we spin every day. So we spin 365 times as we go around this one year. But with the Moon, it goes around in like this 27, 28 day cycle, but it also spins only once in that cycle. So it's like for the Moon, the day length and the year length in, (these are all in inverted commas) day length and year length are exactly the same. And it means that the Moon is moving, but it's always presenting the same face to the Earth. 

And I feel like this is very much that Mother energy, that the Mother is always looking at the child and is always child-centered. The Sun maybe is the Father energy and has that constant fixed position that's so important in holding the family together and providing and creativity and confidence that the Sun provides. Whereas the Moon has this really caring view to Earth that just doesn't take its eyes off Earth. And although Earth is spinning around in those 27 days, the Moon is just always looking at the Earth.

So I feel like this is very much the Mother energy, and I think again, it plays with this idea of the Moon being changeable. That it is very changeable, but in another way it's constant. Beautiful dichotomy of the Moon. And then a third area of qualities for the Moon is the Moon's connection with plants in Astrology is very strong, right?

We think of the Moon as being almost like the sap that's running through plants or that soma that's nourishing the plants from the inside. Therefore, the Moon is protective of nature of life. It's connected with fertility. The rhythms of life and nature. It's connected with the ocean. And with all of these liquids like the ocean water, and like blood in our body, milk, lymph fluid, all of this stuff. 

[00:13:57] Nisha Sankaran: Going back to the liquids and the blood, since we're talking about some of the physicality of what the Moon represents. Women in their menstrual cycles.

[00:14:05] Fiona Marques: Yes.

[00:14:07] Nisha Sankaran: so I'm sure we're going to get into this, but it's really interesting because not a lot of that is being reflected in the Mythology that we see.

[00:14:14] Fiona Marques: The relationship with the Moon and the relationship with the menstrual cycle. It's very direct kind of relationship. And the blood in the body, the hormones in the body, the changing phases of the Moon. And another physical quality that didn't get on their list, actually that should be there is like a rhythm, that the Moon rules music and rules that regular beat.

 These qualities of the Moon is showing us that nature has this expansion and contraction energy. And that's one of the fundamental properties of living beings, whether they be animals or plants, is this expansion and contraction, just like the Moon is expanding to Full and contracting to New Moon.

And just like the female menstrual cycle is, expanding to be capable of gestating a child. And it's also contracting to detoxify and release that to keep the body healthy and to keep the body pure or free of toxins. So the Moon has so much to teach us. 

 Then a fourth area of qualities of the Moon, more like physical qualities. Like it's luminous, it's white, it's magnetic, it's reflective, it's pure sweetness, it's pure heart. It's connected with this idea of soma or nectar, this life giving essence. And it's not interfering. It's very hard for us to look at the Sunlight. It's not comfortable for our eyes to do that. But it's delicious to look at the Moonlight, right? That silver white luminous light is cooling and refreshing and intoxicating magnetic hypnotic.

So I think there are some just physical qualities of the Moon that are important when we think about where the Moon is in a person's chart. 

I put together also a fifth bunch of qualities. One of the names of the Moon is the creator of the night. It's also creation of the passing of time because we can see the Moon changing right in front of our eyes. It really helps us to measure time. That our orbit around the Sun is 365 and a quarter days. That's a big number to get, it's not a very natural number. But the Moon cycle, especially with its changing shape every night, helps us to really physicalize the passing of time. And a month is something that we can all wrap our heads around. And even easier than that is the week. The week that the Moon is Full, the week that it's in a crescent, the week that it's in New Moon, the week that it's in the other crescent. It's, these are very relatable time packets. So it's the creator of the night, but it's also the creator of the passing of time.

This allows us to experience the world, to experience our karma, to experience time passing and to know that we are moving through our karma. And it's also it's our dreams, the creator of our dreams. It is both moving and not moving. It's our subconscious. It's our imagination. So it's got these very special connection to our dreaming, to our aspirations, to what we can create with our imagination and how we can change the world with our imagination.

And of course it's receptive. It's showing us how to be receptive to dreams, to our subconscious, to our intuition. 

[00:17:54] Nisha Sankaran: You always see Shiva with the crescent Moon and he's associated with time. And he's very intimately connected in the Mythology and in ritual, very connected to the Moon. And another thing that comes to mind is how the Moon represents the subconscious.

 And in terms of receptivity, being in a meditative state, to me a lot of times, is cutting through all the stuff that all of us humans go through. And having a practice to finally be open to the goodness of, how we were created and being receptive to that.

So it seems to me that a meditative state can be, can represent that. As well as just like a conversation between yourself or your higher Self and God, and however you describe that. 

[00:18:51] Fiona Marques: I think that's really important what you're bringing in, because in some ways what I didn't put on that list was that the Moon is connected to the feelings, to our emotions, and I guess it's on the list because it's, we talked about the heart, and we talked about water and we talked about change. So all of these things tell us about emotions.

But the Shiva connection is really important, isn't it? And I think this is a really nice introduction to speaking about the Mythology because in some ways, the Mythology we're going to cover today does talk to us about how to be detached with one's emotions or how to be mindful and observant of one's emotions and be in this experience of the Moon, which is incredibly changeable and at the same time, endless and enduring.

For me, the myths that we're going to talk about are a little bit encouraging us to develop this relationship of equanimity with all of the changes that are going on. So then let's take that invitation to dive into some of these stories. And we've got a few stories with the Moon, haven't we? It's not just one.

Where would you like to start today, Nisha?

[00:20:14] Nisha Sankaran: I think the creation of the Moon is pretty important, isn't it?

[00:20:18] Fiona Marques: Yeah. Let's go with the creation of the Moon. 

[00:20:21] Myth of the Creation of the Moon

[00:20:21] Fiona Marques: The Vedic Astrology myth that we think about around the primordial creation of the Moon involves a Rishi, which is a sage, and I've got here Rishi Atri. And also a partner, cause we need two parents. And this is Anasuya Devi, and she's a daughter of Brahma.

So we have, once again, a kind of God and human being involved in the creation of the Moon. And Chandra, or Chandra, the Moon is born as a boon from Brahma to the parents for their purity. So this situation came about if we were to try to tell this myth. The version that I read was that the three Gods actually, I believe Shiva and Vishnu and Brahma, they were married to some particular partners.

And Rishi Atri's partner was very famous for their purity. And this caused some jealousy perhaps. And the partners of these three gods challenged the gods to really see whether this partner was as pure as the reputation suggested. And so they came up with a scheme to ask the partner to feed them naked.

And obviously this is where it gets a bit disturbing, as a woman, and you're reading this, it's just not very palatable. But if we try to zoom out a little bit here ... Anasuya demonstrated her faith, and I think this is a real property of the Moon because of its changeability. We want to have faith that although it's always changing it's coming back around as well. It's constant. So she uses her faith to take on this request as a challenge and creatively come up with a way of staying true to self or to the person's self, to their faith and belief, and came up with a scenario where it would be entirely pure to feed these people naked. And what she came up with was transforming these beings back into children. And as they were children, this parent was able to feed them breast milk because that's an entirely appropriate relationship between the baby and the Mother.

And it speaks to us so much about the Mother energy of the Moon. And she fulfilled this challenge, this request, and maintained at the same time all of the appropriate and loving relationships. And I believe that she then held them hostage and the partners' of the gods had to come and ask for their partners back again. And she was kind enough to return them to their adult form. 

And each of those gods then, Shiva and Vishnu and Brahma, gave a different boon. And it is in the process of that boon that Chandra was created. 

But the creation of Chandra actually required the other parent as well. So the Rishi did a particular discipline. The Rishi undertook a commitment to remain still. And not just for an hour, not just for an afternoon, but obviously for 3000 years. With the person's arms extended and even not blinking. So I think that we can take this as creative license telling us that it, when one wants to make a commitment that can be rewarded, they can be great rewards from doing Tapas, from doing what it is that we have committed to doing.

And isn't it interesting in all of this changeability of the Moon that the Moon's birth actually comes from a practice of stillness? Of complete presence and stillness. So because of the devotion of Rishi Atri, the body of the Rishi, filled with Soma. This magical nectar, magical fluid. And it in fact overflowed so much that it went up into the sky. And it overflowed and filled the whole heavens with luminosity and with the help of some celestial beings that captured some of that essence but couldn't quite hold onto it, it dropped into the shape of Chandra and the Moon.

And so we see that the very essence of the Moon is this life giving soma. So we Shall we talk about some of the challenging aspects that are there which is obviously, it's the questioning of a woman's virtue, isn't it?

[00:25:43] Nisha Sankaran: Yes. The naked feeding is very disturbing. And so the cleverness is what is being highlighted, and of course, in my estimation, cleverness of course, can be shown in a multitude of ways. But this one is based on a woman being naked which seems to be a very common element within all these myths. So that I would say is disturbing. And I would say it's not only disturbing for women, I would say that if anyone, a male or anyone was being tested for purity based on being naked, it's a challenging premise to, to be tested in such a way or find it necessary to be done in the first place.

[00:26:37] Fiona Marques: As you were relating that, I was also having that feeling that in some ways this myth is trying to empathize with women or with minorities, with marginalized people that are put in difficult situations.

So this Mythology is trying to acknowledge that happens all the time. And to have faith that there's going to be something good that comes out of this. "I don't like being put in this situation. I wish that I wasn't being put in this situation. But life is full of challenges". And this Mythology is trying to show us that here's something that one thinks is impossible.

That is just a really horrible challenge. And yet if we do have faith and we do believe in ourselves, there may be a creative way through that. And just to have faith that as icky as something feels that the changing nature of the Moon and our emotions is going to help us go through this situation and find a way to respond to it.

But maybe we can take some consolation that even a goddess or even a god who is well known for their purity is going to come up against tough situations. So don't take it personally. Other people get jealous. That's normal. And this is a chance to be playful and creative and come up with something unique. Which was certainly achieved in this situation. 

I think it's really interesting, isn't it, how the Moon is always associated with purity and that in Mythology, women can carry this burden of purity. Maybe that's not correct. I'm sure there are male gods who also have to prove their purity. But it's really interesting because the Moon is all around this detoxing thing because of the Full Moon and the New Moon and the Full Moon and the New Moon, there's this chance to remove toxins from the body.

If you have a female body and you can have that menstrual cycle, you've got the chance to experience blood purity in a way that a male body doesn't have that chance to do the bloodletting. It's literal. Like we can think that the purity kind of means being very virtuous or being very chaste or something, but in some ways it's just a physical quality of having this mammal body that we have the opportunity to detox and purify the blood.

And the blood is a fluid that belongs to the Moon. So maybe the purity thing is a lot more literal than we think?!.

[00:29:47] Nisha Sankaran: Yeah I prefer that interpretation, because I think purity has a lot of, especially in today's world, if we're going to bring this down, that kind of thinking it has a lot of very serious consequences. Word has been defined in multitude of ways based in religion and before then, probably based in Mythology.

And like you said, it's probably not all women, but it's a lot of times young children and women who have had to have held that burden and through, just our anatomy, have been tested in certain ways in reality for that sense of purity. And just like what you were saying about the bloodletting, I think it's also really interesting that in terms of the detoxification and healing properties, how in medicine to heal x, y, z ailment, they would blood let as a way to cure disease, or at least to mitigate it.

[00:30:57] Fiona Marques: Yeah. I think it's something that we don't honor enough in our society this gift of being able to release through the blood. And I've always thought that maybe that's why women live longer than men. That we get this extra chance to purify a little bit the toxins that are maybe in the blood.

[00:31:15] Nisha Sankaran: Yeah. And I really like how, with the Sun, it seemed to me that it was very like its brightness was internal, but it was also very external. So there's a very definite okay, other people receive my rays and get life. And I think with the Moon, it's really interesting because in representing Motherhood, when you're pregnant, you're like mixing your fluids with your child. It's a more communal kind of give and take with hormones and with fluids. So I think that's interesting.

[00:31:46] Fiona Marques: Yeah. I love that you're bringing that in. I think that's so true. When I was breastfeeding, I read this amazing article that even during the breastfeeding, because it's like a suction thing, The child is sucking milk, but the woman's body is sucking in the saliva of the child. And then the woman's body analyzes that for the immune system and puts into the milk, the immune cells that the woman's body already has that relate to that. Exactly what you are saying, that there's, it's a symbiotic fluid thing. And I think this is very much what the Moon is about. 

I think another thing that's important to take away from this myth is a sense of humor or a kind of going with the flow that the the person is able to have. So this challenge that's presented to the person is very confronting and uncomfortable. And inverted commas "wrong". It's clearly wrong. It's something, everybody knows it's wrong. And what the person is able to do is to respond in a witty way, in a funny way, humorous way. Take the power away from the people that have made the challenge, shrink them down to babies. They can't speak, they don't have control of their body functions, and feed them in an entirely appropriate way. The Moon in Shadbala, when we think about the Ayana bala of the Moon, it actually thrives, it's at its best, when it is in this humorous go with the flow kind of way of dealing with conflict. That let's just take reality as it is right now and find a good way of resolving this conflict. 

And when the Moon doesn't work well is when it crosses its arms, stands there and says, "Nope, this is wrong. You shouldn't be doing this. I won't stand for it". And has potentially a tantrum about the whole thing because the ideals are, "This is wrong. You are being inauspicious. You should never have asked me to do this". And it just go stiff and stops and. Although that feels like the righteous thing to do. So I get you, if you've got your Moon in those positions and you feel like you should stand up for what's right and what's wrong, actually, what Shadbala is telling us, in relation to the Moon, is that it is this going with the flow that the person demonstrates in this myth. That instead of putting the foot down and stopping the drama and causing a head butting, like an, an actual conflict, the person is able to be adaptive. And that is what the Moon can help us with in terms of conflict resolution if it's strong in Lunar Shadbala. So I think that very playful approach to conflict is helpful to learn something from, in this myth that sometimes. The best way to resolve something is to be playful and deal with the facts as they are and not worry about what's right and wrong. Just come up with a creative, playful, humorous way of being in life. Because life is full of, challenges and tough stuff, huh?

All right. So I've stepped up to the plate and tried to describe the primordial myth. Would you like to tell us a little bit about who the Moon marries Nisha?

[00:35:22] Nisha Sankaran: Okay. 

[00:35:23] The Myth of the Moon and the Nakshatras

[00:35:23] Nisha Sankaran: So the Moon, Chandra, Soma, Chandrama, I've also heard, and there are several other names, he marries 27 sisters. Who are also known as the "Nakshatra" and Nakshatra means not destructible. Or indestructible. Or that which does not decay. So keep that in mind because it's very interesting and relevant. 

So the Moon marries these 27 wondrous sisters and he ends up spending most of his time with Rohini. And the father of these sisters, Daksha. Initially the sisters had gone to the Moon and said, "Listen, Chandra, how about you spend, some time with us, you're spending all the time with Rohini. Just make it a little equal here". And so they went back several times and he refused to. So then they went to their father, Daksha. And Daksha went to the Moon and said, "Hey, you're spending a lot of time with Rohini. You have to treat people more equitably. And you have 26 other companions that you need to be spending more time with". So Daksha again gave him a couple of different warnings. The third or fourth time that Daksha had come to him, he had basically had enough because the Moon still hadn't listened.

So Daksha put a curse on him and said, "Listen, you're going to lose your lustre. You're going to lose your vitality. You're going to lose your beauty". And so, though there was some satisfaction in this, the wives of the Moon didn't want him to completely wane away. Which is basically what was happening to the Moon, because the Moon is very vital to the survival of many other things on Earth and to life itself.

So Daksha himself could not necessarily undo the curse. So he had to go to Brahma, and Brahma had to then go to Shiva, who was the only one who could modify and alter the curse. Shiva saw that the destruction that the that the Moon wasn't changing and wasn't going from the waning phases to the waxing phases. Saw that there was going to be a lot of destruction in life and it just wasn't sustainable.

So Shiva said, "Okay, I'm going to give you half, half the time where your lustre and beauty and vitality is restored, and the other half where it's not. And Chandra, you must spend an equal amount of time with all your wives because the equanimity is very important".

So that's where we get the phases of the Moon. The waxing and the waning of the Moon. And it's really interesting that Nakshatra means indestructible and that which does not decay because they're holy beings in Mythology as well. And it shows what we were talking about earlier about the endlessness of things and the continuity. And so that which does not decay is really interesting because it's necessary that, just in terms of that detachment that, we do not, even good times, bad times. And the Nakshatras represent everything from good, bad, ugly, death. So many different things that all of us go through every single month. And so if you stay too long in one area of your life for whatever reason, too much of a good thing causes decay. And so that's where we are with that myth.

[00:39:35] Fiona Marques: And of course, what is hard to digest about that in some ways is the idea that, once again, the women are mistreated, the wives are mistreated and they have to really band together and rally to, to get somebody to do what they're supposed to do. I guess that's what's hard about it, isn't it?

But from another perspective, what I found the interesting about this myth the other way around was that there's no real story about whether the Moon chose to be put in this situation. I don't know that the Moon actually wanted 27 wives. And I think that this, because I really, obviously this Mythology, has survived largely because wonderfully the priests have kept a tradition going and it's usually passed from priest to priest or, in the male tradition. And here it is. It's arrived to us today. 

However, I think if this was in the nunnery, if it was the nuns who kept this story, obviously this would be a story about menstruation. Something that changes every day. Something that takes 27 days. I think we know exactly what the Nakshatras are representing here.

And I do feel, as a woman, that one doesn't get to choose these 27 wives, right? That that the puberty process is that you were an, you were exactly like your brothers, equal, your emotions were pretty equal all the time. Angry when you're angry, sad, when you're sad. Tired when you're tired. It was all exactly the same. And then hormones come along and suddenly you are on a rollercoaster of these 27 different days. And I do feel for the Moon, the male character in this myth that he didn't get, I don't think he put his hand up and said, I want to marry 27 wives.

And I think that speaks about if this was being retold in the nunnery, this would be that. "One doesn't necessarily get to choose this experience of so much stimulation and so much change. However, one can make the most of it and can surrender. There's a lot to be gained from surrendering to the richness of life". As you were saying, the Nakshatras represent so many different aspects of life. And if one can surrender to that, it's a very rich way to be alive. 

And we talked about the Moon being related to our emotions and this story is a little bit like that, isn't it? It's that we're going to, throughout a month, we're going to experience very different emotions. And the point of the story being a spouse, I think, is that we want to have a good relationship with all of our spouses, with all of our emotions, that each one of them is valid and has its own unique experience. And to be fully present to that relationship, knowing at all the time that it's going to keep changing. We're going to keep moving and we'll be experiencing something else in a, in another day of the month. It'll be a different experience.

[00:43:00] Nisha Sankaran: That's a really great way of looking at it. I would also say that the 27 sisters did not seem to have a choice of sharing one husband. Now that you mention it. It's probably painful for everyone involved. Which to what we're doing here is that, I'm really happy you brought that up because it's it's not an ideal situation for anyone.

Once you understand that all parties involved, there's always backstories, and that all parties involved don't seem to really have choices in any of this stuff. And that goes to daily lives that Oh yes. As women, we experience different phases of our lives. But that's not necessarily, it's not an aberration from the male's experience. It's just what it is to be human. And I would say that males, even though they don't have a menstrual cycle, experience things in ways that we don't understand. 

So I would say there's not even a standard way of experiencing life. It's just. To your point, like some of it's just given to us.

[00:44:09] Fiona Marques: Yeah.

[00:44:11] Nisha Sankaran: Asterisk. Okay.

[00:44:13] Fiona Marques: Yes. Yes. But, and I also think that I'm not that comfortable with the myth defining the waxing and waning as a curse. Because Daksha eventually feels like he has to come in and give a punishment. And Shiva modifies it. And then we get this waxing waning thing. So it's definitely portrayed in the myth as a bad thing.

But really it seems to me when we look at those qualities of the Moon, that life, the very pulse of nature is this expansion and contraction. Is this waxing and waning. So it's a blessing. Without the waxing and waning, without the expanding and contracting, we really don't have life on Earth.

If we think about. We talked about that the Moon relates to liquids. It's got the, we've got the tides, on coming full tide on the Full Moon and going out, and when the Moon's on the other side, we have this rhythm of the water, this enormous body of water moving with the Moon.

We have the blood flow in the body. The heart is expanding and contracting. And we are getting a pulse that we can feel the blood coming in, sort of these packets. And if the heart didn't pump, we are not alive. It's not like an open chambers of the heart is superior or better then the closed chambers of the heart.

We need both of them at the same time. And in fact, if you think about what it is, it's bringing in the oxygen into the lungs, putting it into the blood. And squeezing that blood out into the body. Which is also allowing the carbon dioxide to get squeezed out of the respiratory system. So while we think that, the in breath, we're bringing in oxygen, it's actually on the out breath that oxygen is being dispersed into the cells. And on the in breath is when our cells are disposing of their carbon dioxide into the blood. 

So I cannot see how the waxing and waning is a curse. It's the very rhythm of life. And again, getting back to being a Mother, it's just hilarious that we call childbirth, we call it contractions. I'm having contractions. Obviously we are not having contractions, we're having expansions. That's the whole point. If we were having contractions, then it's the wrong thing. It's not going to work. It's the expansions. And what are you going to, how are you going to give birth without expanding? You need to be able to squeeze and expand and squeeze and expand. They both go together.

Sometimes the things that we have problems with in this Mythology is the gender things, but sometimes it's also, I just can't, I can't see how looking at waxing and waning as a curse is actually a reflection of nature. It seems to me that this is in fact essential. This is the experience of being alive is expansion and contraction.

And the Moon is demonstrating that. And it's demonstrating to us in this story of the partners that it is not helpful to have a preference. And this is really where the detachment thing, this is where we are moving towards Shiva, I think now because the problems that Chandra gets into in this myth is having a preference for one of the Nakshatras and becoming sticky, like getting stuck, trying to stay somewhere.

And I think this Mythology is really trying to teach us that the Moon and sticky don't go together. The Moon needs to, it works best, the Moon works best when it has no preference. When it is surrendered to the experience of being alive. And the Nakshatras are a little bit like 27 different dance classes or whatever, you've gotta completely throw yourself into salsa. And then the next night, you've got to throw yourself into the twist. And the next night you're doing some waltzing. And, you know, that it's to be experienced. That's where the joy is in being in the moment and not thinking, "I can't wait to get back to that waltz class that I was doing. Or the chacha thing was really good". Because we're going to be experiencing all of them all of the time. They're coming in the right order. The timing is all happening as it should, so we've got to surrender.

[00:48:46] Nisha Sankaran: That's absolutely correct. And I think with the Moon representing the subconscious and meditation, and the subtle body, it's it's that power of the now. That very Buddhist concept and a lot of, from probably every teaching ever anywhere on Earth. It's the eternal now. And I think that's a very powerful, talk about power, that's a very powerful place to be. Just in reality, but also mentally knowing that's where all of our power lies. 

And I think that as the Moon is a reflection of the Sun onto Earth and supporting that materiality a lot more symbolically, it's like a forced reminder because the Moon does go in phases ,it's a forced reminder that for each of us, no matter how you see someone, whether they're powerful or not powerful, however you see someone that their phases of life are going to mirror ours and that it's inescapable in the best sense. The waxing and the waning, I would agree. It's, I think it's, if as a curse, like I see what they're trying to convey, maybe historically in the myth, because it could have been probably a scary time when things go dark. You have no other light source generally. But symbolically, I love kind of that, that cusp my, I think it's probably my name, which means night in sanskrit, but I've learned so much from, the dark night of the soul or whatever, like going inward and having to really do a lot of that self work.

And really surrendering myself a lot of times to what's happening. Because also what I find is that, higher power, God, or the connection to all that is also speaks through other people and you can't really hear those things unless you're surrendering to one of those 27 days. Unless you're surrendering to the now.

[00:50:45] Fiona Marques: And when the Moon is starving Mercury, for example, it causes mercury to take things personally. And Mercury really has this great ability to be like rational and. See both sides of everything and just use kind of words and logic to, to cut through deception.

So Mercury really has this light quality of being able to see both sides. And yet when it's influenced by the Moon it loses that a bit because it takes things personally and it wants a particular outcome from its investigations or from its analysis. It wants the truth to be "..." and it's trying to find that answer.

And I think this again tells us that where the Moon causes problems is when it gets sticky. So when we get stuck and we want a particular outcome, we take things personally. This Mythology is trying to say to us, to completely surrender to the 27 dance classes and not take any of it personally. So be it's be fully present and, like you said, completely in the now, not in the kind of, "I should be better at this class, or, I'm not very good at this. Oh, this is the one I like. Or I love being at this class", or whatever. Because that, when we start taking it personally, that's when we want something. And that's when the mind becomes harder for us to experience bliss is when the mind is wanting something. It latches onto an idea or a feeling or that, a sensation that it would like, and it's chasing after that. So this story is helping us coming back to that dichotomy thing of being completely surrendered, really experiencing something and not personalizing it, not holding it in any way. Just being ready to let it go. So the story is helping us with this, the idea of detachment and having equanimity even as we're been spun on the dance floor and we moved to the next dance class and the music's completely different and.

And I think that this is something that perhaps when we look at the more, the male telling of this Mythology, sometimes the Moon to me comes off a little bit like a metronome. It's like the rhythm of life. Tick tick. And I can see that in some that is a representation of the Moon. But I feel that it's a much more dynamic. It's not just on, off, on, off, on, off. It's really being thrown all through the experiences of all of these phases of the Moon. They really have an energy of their own that's very dynamic. And that's why it's so important for us to learn how to practice some equanimity.

Which I keep saying that brings us to Shiva. 

[00:53:43] Chandra and the Milk Ocean

[00:53:43] Fiona Marques: So another creation myth for Chandra is if we go back to the ocean, the milk ocean of consciousness. And this is part of our Rahu-Ketu Mythology. So you might already know this myth. But the idea is that,, in order to experience material karma, for us to be able to actually use this playground of planet Earth to work our way through all of the lessons that we would like to detach and let go of we actually need a whole lot of play things here on the planet to, to bounce off and to have our experiences with.

And so out of the ocean of consciousness or the milky ocean of unconsciousness, we need to churn and bring up the things that will allow us to resolve our karma. So to do this, there were various mythological creatures and factions that helped. So in fact, I do think that both the demons and the angels got together to stir the ocean of consciousness with a giant mountain. And I believe that they used a snake to wrap like a rope around the mountain. And then they could pull and push and kind of stir this ocean. And at some point a turtle gets involved as well. So there's a lot going on in this Mythology. But once they agree and find a way to work together, the gods and the demons, the ocean does start to produce all of these products that are important for resolving our consciousness. And one of these products that comes out, out of the milk consciousness is Chandra, correct? A disc. Each of the gods are there Brahma and Vishnu and Shiva are there. And Shiva claims the Moon as a tool or a symbol associated with Shiva. And in fact places the crescent shaped Moon in Shiva's hair.

This is telling us that even Shiva the God of detachment, of the endings of things, how important emotions are and how important the mind is in all of those processes. Because Shiva's wearing the Moon very prominently in the hair. And I believe it's a crescent Moon. And perhaps this is telling us that the right amount of mind is very helpful in being human. It doesn't have to be the Full Moon. The entire glowing luminous Moon. Perhaps the mind is best when it's in the ratio of mind to the rest of experience is a small crescent of mind and a whole lot of, a whole lot of soul and spirit.

[00:56:47] Nisha Sankaran: Exactly. I think that it's really interesting that the Moon is placed up near Shiva's, near his head, near his mind. And even in that realm, just the connection that Shiva has with understanding how important the human experience is. Not just the spirit experience, but the human experience and how the mind is, how we get things done.

And even though it is such a small part, it's a vital part to be able to do the things that we're supposed to do here on Earth. 

[00:57:22] Summary and Conclusion

[00:57:22] Fiona Marques: So now that we've been through these three primordial creation myths of the Moon, let's reflect back on those qualities and see how these myths are helping us remember the qualities of the Moon, saving us from the task of memorizing 450 words in a table. How do these myths help us remember qualities about the Moon? 

[00:57:47] Nisha Sankaran: I would say just in this conversation, I understand like all of a sudden, like I'm like really seeing the connections of, the Moon and what it represents and the Sun and just, and in a lot of like Earth-based spirituality and religions, why the Moon is so important because it does have such a huge job and it's just by nature it has to be very changeable and adaptable.

Because initially I was thinking yeah, it's a Mother figure and it's a woman and just, that's what people put upon us. Whether or not this specific woman is adaptable and changeable, that's just a trait that everyone expects. And so in looking at it through just, just this conversation, I see how important that, that aspect is in order for us to have a lot of sense of joy in our lives every single day.

And with that sense of detachment. Because even if it's the Buddhist definition of detachment or your own or whatever it is, it can sound very cold. And I know a lot of people think that it, like when they think of the Moon, it's very cold. It's distant, it's detached. But I think that because it does represent so much change over just 27 days, in order to retain a sense of joy, you have to have that sense of detachment. Because just physically, like you think about the fluids and everything in our bodies, everybody's bodies, once it stops, disease happens. Death can happen. A lot of the things that you know aren't good for us is what occurs.

So that happens also, not only in the manifest, but in the mind. You can get stuck on things and whether or not it's true or whether or not it happened isn't really the point. It's necessary to move on, not necessarily to the next thing, but "What can I do about it? How can I get help? How can I, make this life even if it wasn't my choice to go through this thing? How can I make my life so that I'm joyful in spite of" and carry that through. That's what's really jumped out at me. 

And I would say the just the difference of the Sun and the Moon, with the Sun, it just, again, it seems just very, like you're put upon is how I take it. It's just like purity in that sense. It's just like it's doing its job. That's how, each of us has the Sun. And we're just doing our job in the world. But then you have this Moon, which is the reflective part of that "doing of your job". And you need an army of 27 to show you how to do your job most effectively. The Moon is extremely important and I know why, just beyond in terms of just like time and seasonal growth, why people think of the Moon as so powerful and so mystical. And so necessary. And why they, base a lot of their worship on the Moon. I think I finally get it.

[01:00:58] Fiona Marques: For all of you guys who are still listening, I was really unclear about what to name our episode about the Sun and I nearly called it, "Two Feminists and a Myth" because I think Nisha and I are like, we're like adventurers in a world that doesn't quite feel natural to us. And, and it's lovely when, through just relaxing and taking a bit of lead from the Moon here of having that Ayana bala approach, "Okay, how can I work with what I've got"? There's actually, there's so much richness, there's so much beauty, there's so much love in these stories about the Moon. And that's why Nisha and I are speaking to each other about this is because we want to be able to access all of the "Soma" that's in this Mythology.

And we've been a bit previously put off by the language. It just hasn't felt inclusive and hasn't felt lovely. So it's a real joy, isn't it, when we talk through it and it's "Oh yeah that's, I get that!". So that's all that we are trying to achieve is a really good feeling about these ancient stories.

 I think the stories now do share so much about the Moon. I think that first story talks to me about Ayana bala and the Moon and having humor and using one's intelligence in an adaptable way. It's really inspiring. I think that we can, in our current culture around what they call "Cancel Culture", we can be very "putting our foot down" and in some ways a little bit of this Moon Ayana bala, a little bit of humor, a little bit of faith that everybody's trying to do the best that they can. Seeing the best in everyone. And that's the quality of the Moon. This compassion the Moon, always looking at the Earth, synchronizing its own annual orbit or its own orbit to being a day length so that it can always keep its eye on the Earth because of that just that love and compassion. 

And then the second myth about the partners, the 27 partners, I just think that is a menstruation myth. I wish I had heard it when I was 13 or whatever. I think it would've helped me get on board with the incredible ride that menstruation is.

And then the Shiva, it really emphasizes, doesn't it, how important the Moon is. It talks to us about the mind and how the Moon and detachment go together through complete surrender to the now. So it's not, one doesn't achieve peace by withdrawing. One achieves peace by surrendering to the experience. 

It's been lovely to speak about the Moon to go through this Mythology.

And I feel like that leaves us with staring our face into Mars next time we get together, Nisha. So who knows what we'll find. Until then, I just wanted to thank you so much for being part of the project and sharing yourself so fully with our listeners. And wanted to also say thanks to everybody who's here at the end of the video and the Podcast. It's lovely to be with you. We'd love, we got loads of feedback about the Sun Mythology. We'd love to hear your thoughts about the Moon Mythology and look forward to catching up with you next time on The Vedic Astrology Podcast. Thanks everyone. Thanks Nisha.

[01:04:21] Nisha Sankaran: Thank you.

[01:04:22] Fiona Marques: Bye.