S2 Ep10 - Awakening to Surya: Dawn Awareness and Sun Mythology with Nisha Sankaran

Awakening to Surya: Dawn Awareness and Sun Mythology with Nisha Sankaran

[00:00:00] Fiona Marques:

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques and I am super excited about the episode that I have for you today. Those of you who follow me will know that, I've been working my way through understanding Sun Mythology in Vedic Astrology.

 And I guess, in the context of Vedic Mythology, I have never really connected particularly too much with any of the Mythology. Apart from one story, which is about Kali. And I love so many things about that Kali Mythology, which we're not getting into today. But I do wanna highlight that one of the things that Kali does when she comes to end the war of all wars, to clean up all the mess of all the stuff that's gone down, she cuts off the heads and she wears all of these skeletons around her neck and, not skeleton skulls. And they represent the sounds of language, the sounds of Sanskrit, one skull for each sound. And that's always reminded me that it is often language that creates the most conflict and misunderstanding. And that's really what Nisha with her enormous heart has brought to us here today is the opportunity to examine the language that has encased the Mythology, in this case, the Sun Mythology, and can be leading us towards misunderstandings and hurt and suffering and feeling disconnected or not recognized, not seen.

So today the two of us are going to do our best to wade into the glory of the Sun Mythology and use our Kali inspiration to remove language that's causing misunderstanding and suffering. And I hope that you will join us on this journey. I'm here today with my friend Nisha. And we are both Astrology enthusiasts, in fact, Vedic Astrology enthusiasts. We always strive to learn more about Vedic Astrology. Nisha, what would you like to share about what brought us together?

[00:02:19] Nisha: I feel very fortunate to have connected with you. I just throughout the years, have always loved the culture that I come from, being Indian. Even though I was born and raised in the U.S. I consider this my home, but I have very strong cultural and family ties to India, specifically South India and the Hindu culture.

And so I've always loved it. But I think with all, like old and ancient cultures and religions, there's a lot of complexity and a lot of, let's say, texture. And, I've taken courses here and there I am by no means an academic or a professional. I've read books and I've experienced Hinduism, like first person, but that's really the extent.

And so in the last, I would say seven years or so, I've been really attracted to Vedic Astrology. And, it's not necessarily a very popular topic amongst people my age. A lot of people just ignore it. And even traditionally when it was used for arranged marriages and stuff, (I'm pretty sure that's how my parents got married and a lot of other people). That's still used a little bit, but it's not given, I would say the same seriousness or gravity that it was in previous generations. Especially with the diaspora moving out of India. But also India itself is changing. 

And I'm just very curious because I love symbology and I love archetypes and what are the meanings behind things. And so that's what really brought me to it. And I started taking Vedic Astrology courses, from a variety of teachers, both from India and also from here, from the West.

And, I've always gotten to a point, and then when it comes across like the Mythology and other things, I stopped learning because I stopped seeing the relevance. But yet the culture and the tradition is still very popular. And in fact, it's growing in popularity, in the West. I just really have been reaching out to a variety of people who teach Vedic Astrology or actual practitioners and wondering just about how we can make like the beauty of the system and the wisdom of the system more relevant and more inviting to people of all backgrounds.

And I think that for something to survive or like a culture or a tradition, a wisdom tradition to survive, it also needs to meet people where they're at. And so I think because our world is changing so much and because people still want, like that spiritual lineage. Whether or not you're ethnically from that area. Just having that sort of like the Ancients and their Wisdom like that we can wrap ourselves in like a warm blanket is very appealing. And so it would sadden me with some of the language that I saw in the more traditional forms of the Myths, that were just not as inviting. 

[00:05:30] Fiona Marques: I really appreciated that you did reach out and contact me because I've also gained a lot in our researching for this discussion. It's also brought a lot for me as well because I think that, like you, I can find the language a bit off-putting. And, as I'm not from that culture, I have the luxury of kind of picking and choosing a little bit, at my way to understand Vedic Astrology, because I come to it as an adult, as a study, as a science, so I can pick and choose the bits that help me make meaning.

And I have to admit that the language of the Mythology just didn't resonate for me. So I hadn't put much attention on it. So I've really appreciated also the research that we've been doing. What are the Archetypal Energies that are really important about this Mythology? So for me, this has been a process of digesting and really gaining the nutrition from these Myths that otherwise I just wasn't. I was a bit repulsed by them, so I didn't engage with trying to understand them. 

[00:06:35] Why do Myths have distasteful elements and language?

[00:06:35] Fiona Marques: So to get us started, I do think that, it's really important to acknowledge that this is a Mythology that has withstood the test of time.

And you think about how many cultures have been on Earth and have had their stories and their own culture and their own ceremonies and practices and dances and artwork. Humanity is really rich in the way that we creatively respond to our environment and to the pressures that we feel; the suffering that we go through.

So there are many hundreds of different cultures that have bloomed over the millennia, and some of those have come and gone. Some of them have been integrated into bigger cultures. Or when wars have happened, things have been combined. And then others have managed to survive all the way through to the present day. And I think this is something really to be acknowledged about the Mythology that it's written in such a way, perhaps that it's full of salacious elements that help Vedic Astrology Mythology become like memes that we send each other around on TikTok or whatever. The Mythology has had these catchy elements that make it memorable and perhaps this is part of its story of success. So while I might struggle in the present as a western woman raised in the late 20th century, I might find some of the language a bit unpalatable. I do have to acknowledge that the strategy to make the Mythology tantalizing, rememorable has worked because here we are with all of this, Vedic Astrology Mythology to talk about.

And we also have to think about that if we feel comfortable with the idea of cyclical time or that our little solar system is moving closer to the center of the galaxy at some periods of time, and other times it's moving far away from the center of the galaxy. If we have that idea, that time is evolving in this cyclical way, we could also acknowledge that these Myths have survived the Iron Age or the darkest times of humanity where our, the human mind was really affected by the tamasic karma that we were all engaging in. Stories of war and hardship and terrible events maybe reflected what was going on during this Iron Age period as well. And now as we move, as our solar system moves as close as it gets to the center of the galaxy, it's natural for us to go through a process of purifying and taking out the impurities that have gotten into these really powerful Archetype stories.

[00:09:29] Nisha: I think what you said is spot on. I think an important point that you bring up that I can, as you said, like just someone living, in the times that we live in right now, I can sometimes forget in what state the world was in when these Myths were originated. And even as they were changed up, let's say a thousand years later, 500 years later, with as many variations that it's probably already gone through, they're very context specific, which can also be a reason why we don't hear a lot of non-male voices in in the stories.

[00:10:17] What can we gain from working with the language as it is?

[00:10:17] Fiona Marques: I do think it's important to remember that, if we are gonna become Vedic Astrologers, we are gonna see a lot of distasteful stuff in people's charts. Because all of us have trauma and suffering.

And it can come in all of these different guises. People are really struggling with things. So in some ways, the Mythology exactly as it is, is great practice for us too, in being relaxed and accepting in our intellect as a Vedic Astrologer to allow the truth of the person to be as it is, and to not push away or be repulsed by something that we see in the chart and therefore become judgmental and our advice becomes colored by what we consider to be acceptable or pure or okay.

So we may see in client's charts violence that has been committed towards the client or that has been committed by the client. And we want to remain compassionate in both of those situations. And inclusive that all of us are making mistakes all the time. So in some ways, if you ever come across Myths that are hard to digest, it's good practice for us. When we are reading charts and we want to do our best job as a Vedic Astrologer, we wanna find that place inside of ourselves of equanimity where we are grounded in good wishes, regardless for whatever the circumstances are.

So there was this quote that I found, from Dr. Andrew Foss, that "As long as we have some fault to find in the flow of nature's intelligence, we cannot fathom the message of the planets and the stars". And I personally, this is one of the things that most attracts me to Vedic Astrology, is the enormous scope for understanding life. For experiencing wisdom. Vedic Astrology has the capacity to want to explain EVERYTHING. And I'd love to be able to explain EVERYTHING. That's really attractive to me. And it's also very humbling that, "Who am I to understand everything?" And we, all of us have our filters on that make it some things attractive and some things repulsive.

And being a Vedic Astrologer is a great practice in accepting Nature as it is. So I thought that quote was really, inspiring and that's what I try to do in my work is have that really broad, compassionate view to all that we've all been through. 

[00:13:02] Nisha: After I saw that quote, I think it helps equalize everything. There's a quote that I really liked that I saw last week, and it's attributed to Thoreau, and "It's not what you look at that matters. It's what you see". This entire journey over the last few weeks of finally rolling up my sleeves and digging into the Myths and, also like witnessing my own reactions to them. And, just working my way through and having discussions with you, it reminded me that's like looking at the chart, we can all look at it, but what are you actually seeing?

And with Astrology and with charts like what you actually see evolves over time. And not because necessarily the technicalities of the chart, but because of our own experiences as if we're Vedic Astrologers or clients. What we're gonna be taking from a session or what we're gonna be taking from whatever is going on in the chart.

And it's the good and the bad and everything in between. So that's what came to mind.

[00:14:03] Fiona Marques: Yeah. I think this stuff is really important and that's why I also think meditation is so important as a Vedic Astrologer because what you were just talking about, if we are having our own reactionary response to things, then we're already creating ripples. We want actually the water to be clear and still so that we can see as far and as deep as possible.

And when we've got our own personal prejudices or filters, we start creating the very thing that's gonna make it the hardest for us to be of service. 

[00:14:38] What are the innate qualities of the Sun?

[00:14:38] Fiona Marques: Really important part of being a Vedic Astrologer as well, is understanding the pure qualities of each planet. And once we get a feel for those, we can then apply it to people's charts and have insights. One of the main qualities of the Sun is the fact that it is the first, it's the first "Planet". In many places in the world Sunday is the first day of the week. In our solar system it's the first, because really there would be no life at all without the Sun being there. So it has to be the first thing. And that gives the Sun, at the center of the solar system a protective nature over all of these planets that are in its orbit.

So the Sun is the first, and it's a alone in the center there. And yet at the same time, it's gravitational field is holding all of these planets and it's protecting them. In Vedic Astrology, and in the Myths, and Nisha's gonna help me with these as we get into it, but in some ways the Sun contains everything.

And we think about that in science or in the Western scientific view as well. It's Sunlight that we think of as being white or bright, is actually made up of the seven colors of the rainbow. So as well as the Sun having this light that contains all of the colors, in the Mythology, it contains all of the gods. The Sun is one of 12 siblings, but is anointed to be the one that represents all of them or integrates all of them. So the Sun is one and it's first, but it's also everything. And if we also think about Vedic Astrology, in some ways, the entire zodiac is created by the Sun because of its movement through the ecliptic. And those Rasis that it creates, those 30 degree segments that we split up to be able to understand the journey of the Sun. The Sun gives, rulership custodianship to planets. So we think, for example, that Mars rules the 30 degrees of Aries and it rules the 30 degrees of Scorpio, but really it's the Sun that allocates that custodianship to Mars. So in some ways, all of the planets are really just integrated in the Sun.

It's primordial, it's the beginning of things. It's alone, but attached and detached. It's this amazing, I think in when we are gonna speak in our conversation, one of the things I really tapped into with the Sun is, it's sometimes these two poles. You think it's alone, but it's also with all of these planets, it's one thing, but it involves all lights or all gods. The Sun has very much all and one always integrated. And this also makes the Sun very self-contained. That it is, and it is in the scientific view as well, that it's this explosion of hydrogen that is burning its way out. But it's not drawing anything from outside of itself. It's giving completely all that it has.

So one of the qualities of the Sun is this self-contained nature. I think it's very beautiful, for us to tap into, it being as the planet that we live in is very, transactional. We need to be filling up and emptying all the time. And the Sun is self-contained. So this for me is one theme about the Sun.

Our second theme of the qualities of the Sun, I think is around it being imperishable and inconceivable. And I, as scientists we can't even send a probe really right into the Sun because it would just burn up and explode. So in that way it's inconceivable. We completely understand it, but we can never get close enough to experience it.

It's associated with truth and with Sattva. It's timeless, but it is the creator of time. And this again speaks to those two poles for me, that the Sun is stationary there in the center of the solar system and at the same time it moves through our day and night. And that's what gives us a sense of time passing.

It's all knowing. It is surrendered to natural laws. And we can think about that in the way that the Sun always comes up. No matter what is going on with our lives, one can draw hope from the fact that the Sun always comes up. And the Sun, this enormous God that we're gonna speak about, is completely surrendered to these laws of nature. And, that makes it peaceful. And I love that because I think of the Sun as being very hot and dynamic and exploding. And so I love this idea that it's at peace. It's not trying to move anywhere or go anywhere. It's already there. And another phrase that I was reading about with the Sun is that it's non-masticating.

That it doesn't digest in the way that you and I digest. We have to take time to break down things and draw those nutrients out. The Sun is those rays of Sunlight just take away the darkness. So it's process of integrating the light or experiencing the light is just complete surrender to the experience of the light. Very surrendered to the laws of nature and to the process of enlightenment. 

A third theme of qualities around the Sun is all of the things that we think about: the Sunlight, the brightness, that strength, the vitality. In Vedic Astrology, it relates to the bones and to Pitta. It looks in all directions. And you think of that Sunlight just spreading out in all directions. It's inspirational and it's pure. So for me, there's a whole lot of qualities of the Sun around that lightness and brightness. 

And then a fourth area that I noticed was the energy of "up". That it's upstanding, that it's moral, noble, righteous, confident, dependable, trustworthy, and an authority. So these are important qualities of the Sun when we look at it in someone's chart. 

And the fifth area is all of the awakening, opening, tenderness that the Sun does. If you're in the Northern Hemisphere right now, we see the Sun each day just drawing a little more tenderness out of the trees and out of the Earth as these baby shoots of life come back to life after their winter rest. The Sun is detoxifying. It opens the chakras and it moves through the chakras. It's also cruel and it removes the darkness. So it has this effect. We call it a cruel planet in Vedic Astrology, but it has that effect of helping us to notice what doesn't belong to our purity. And it shines a light on those things and it, that doesn't feel very pleasant. So we call it cruel, but that's its job is to detoxify. So these are the kind of five areas of qualities. 

[00:21:58] Nisha: I think that's a great, great descriptors of the Sun. And one thing that really sticks out to me when I was researching was that the Sun represents our ego and our Atma. So it represents both the Soul and the Ego. And in the Myth, in and of itself, when I first started reading it, I couldn't see all these very, nuanced descriptors that you so beautifully just rendered. I could only see the Sun within the story as a role in the story as being like highly egotistical. And it's rays like being very unaware. Even though, and acting as if, within the confines of the Myth ,that it basically created itself and it's creating everybody else. And you know what it says is what goes. And that's initially that that was my reaction. And I was really like, I mean it, as I thought about it more, I was thinking, okay, it makes sense because each of us, and this is for me was the important thing to remember, was that each of us has the Sun in our charts. It's told in the Myth in a certain way to make it memorable. I think because of it's like it doesn't, because it does represent the Ego and the Soul and that the Sun is a creation of both a human, and I think it was an un boundless, divine feminine figure. That even it itself, our ego, itself forgets that it was actually created by divinity or by something beyond itself, at least within this Myth.

So I think that kind of if you wanna talk about like the juxtaposition of the ego, how one thing the Sun can represent in our charts, both the Ego and the Soul, and why that's important to look at.

[00:24:21] Fiona Marques: Two ends of the spectrum at once. And we talked about, timeless but creator of time and what you are talking about, someone's pure inspiration, but can be their most arrogant interaction with the world as well. Like those can be true at the same time.

So yeah, I think the Sun has this polarity, that, that is beautifully, exposed by the Mythology. 

[00:24:44] What is the creation Myth of the Sun in Vedic Astrology?

[00:24:44] Fiona Marques: So shall we keep these kind of energies in mind as we, we leap into, the Sun Mythology? And Nisha shall we try to do like a rendition, a short rendition of the Myth as it is in case people haven't heard it?

[00:25:03] Nisha: In the planetary Sun Myth for Vedic Astrology, initially it's important to know that the Sun is married to Sanjana, who is his partner, and they have three children. Two of whom are the twins, Yami and Yama. And because of all these qualities that Fiona had discussed, Sanjana got to the point where she could not handle all of his, all that white light and all, his heat coming from him. And so she created a shadow wife. A shadow partner named Chhaya, who it means Shadow .And Sanjana left. And the Sun didn't know that this was not his wife, that it was Chhaya, the shadow of Sanjana and not his wife. Until at one point the Sun and Chhaya had three children. And so Chaya's children were treated better by Chaya than his three previous children, than his older children. And so at one point of the kids called her out on it and confronted her, and she then said that she was gonna put a curse on him. And so he went to his father, the Sun, and complained. So then the Sun went to Chhaya and basically said, who are you? You're not my partner, you're not my wife. Chaya conceded and said, that's correct. And so the Sun went on a hunt to go find Sanjana. And so where he found her was she had turned herself into a mare to do, to practice asceticism. So she was basically on her own, just doing her own thing. And so the Sun turned himself into a stallion and had tried to have sexual relations with her, and she had denied him. So she like creatively took in his essence and through that they had three more children. Of note, two of those children are the Ashwini twins, which are the divine healers. So this is the dynamic that, the Myth is predicated upon. And of note also is one of the children of Chhaya and the Sun is Shani (Saturn).

So that's the basic groundwork.

[00:28:11] Fiona Marques: Fantastic. And, at the end of the story, we just wanna add that the Sun did cut down his brightness in order to bring his wife back. And in various forms of the story, that brightness either, becomes weapons that can be used, like sacred weapons that are used then throughout Mythology, in other contexts.

He, one of the stories he puts himself on the lathe and somebody, files off these excess brightness of the Sun. And they returned to being together. 

Yes. And so you can see why Nisha and I struggled with this Myth, right? And I think this is, we all have this baggage from our, our journey through the Iron Age through the Kali Yuga that we have this pain and suffering about the way women have been treated, the domestic violence, the rape, the not being equal partners. All of this is inbuilt into our filters as women. And we can hear this story and be horrified at the sort of misogynistic or male dominated, that's what seems to come when we hear the story. So Nisah and I took on the big task of taking a deep breath and saying, okay, but there's, there is obviously, you've really worthwhile in this story because it has lasted the test of time. So then how could we tell this story without including gender? Because with the gender goggles on, we're instantly snapping into some position about domestic violence and about violence in general and about power imbalances.

So if we can just take the gender out, we might be able to get to the Archetypes. So this is what we did. And we look forward to what you think whether we are capturing this story. 

[00:29:54] What is left in the Myth if we take Gender out?

[00:29:54] Fiona Marques: So if we again, we are zooming out and we are just saying what, what is really happening in this Myth? I consider this main Vedic Astrology Myth of the Sun is like a primordial creation Myth about the Sun's origin, and life as a partner and as a parent. And I think those are themes that we can all relate to, being partners and maybe being parents or being in families. Like we all know those dynamics. And this shows that the Sun, the giver, all light and life on the planet was created in the story was created by the combination of a Sage and a Goddess.

So for me, that spoke about these dichotomies that we've already spoken about, that of the Sun, that right at the beginning of this primal story, we're already mixing the material with the ethereal or that God world. So we have a human Sage and the boundless Goddess are the parents of the Sun. And I think this is important because throughout understanding the Sun we have these polarities to, to get to. And I just think this is beautiful reminder of how intrinsically linked the Earth and the Sun are. That its parentage of the Sun already tells us how important the Earth is. So I love that. And this linking of the Sun with the Earth speaks to us about how the Earth is, the Sun is operating both at the God level and at the Earthly level.

And then next thing that happens, that the Sun is one of 12 children in the Mythology. And I thought that was lovely because the Zodiac contains these 12 signs and the Sun is asked to become the main God. This talks about how white light contains all of the colors and the Sun really has everything in it. It's very primordial in that way that. The very essence of the Sun is actually made up of everything.

And then as we get closer to this, the story that we just shared, it begins with that the Sun finds a partner. So we've all going through that experience. And they have three children. And the partner finds the Sun's brightness, unbearable. And this is because of what we already talked about in, when we looked at all of those qualities of the Sun. It's Dharmic, it's bright, it's self-contained, it's detoxifying. It can be hard to be close to that. It's just so purely detoxifying, so bright that it's bleaching and overpowering everything. Who can actually hold their own when they're standing next to the Sun? The brightest star in, in our sky.

And I think this is a really important part of the Mythology because it tells us when we have strong Suns in our chart, when the Sun in our chart is in a good position, is very strong in Shadbala. Or perhaps when it's very close to other planets. That Sun could be very powerful and we might feel really great about it, but it might be hard for other people to take.

So I think this is a beautiful thing that's in the Mythology. 

[00:33:27] Nisha: I think right here it encapsulates everything, all the various characteristics of the Sun. When you take a step back away from the Myth, it's very easy to see that, at least in the beginning, that this is where the Sun is coming from. Like that huge ego element that seems to really present itself later on.

[00:33:48] Fiona Marques: We talked about in the qualities of the Sun, it being the first and it being alone. That when one is really jamming, like when you're in your vibe, when everything feels like it's just flowing and you are in this creative expression that feels so good, so Dharmic, so righteous, you're doing what you're supposed to do, you're doing it well. It's having results. That, just beaming with satisfaction at your own amazing experience of being alive. And in some ways, we all crave that and it's really good to feel that. And, we are all striving with our charts to find where is that, "Where's that jam? Where would I be really in the zone"?

And here we have, something that this Mythology is trying to share with us is that, that's a great thing. "So good. Bring it on. That's really good. That do your Dharma, do what you are called to do". And it's super important to do that. We can't, we can't have life without the Sun beaming its light.

And in some ways, dimming your own light is not helpful to anyone, right? Because then you are not sharing your brightness. So the Sun's doing all of this great stuff, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact on the people around. And so this partner of the Sun creates a shadow to replace the partner.

And the partner then leaves to live their own life on Earth as a horse. And I thought some of the meaning here that's important is that being close to the Sun creates a shadow. Without the Sun, there is no shadow. And from the Sun's perspective, if you think of those whatever billion watts of bright white light, if you've beam that onto another entity, perhaps all that one could see would be the shadow that just because the whiteness, the brightness one can't necessarily see the features of that person because, one is so bright. And I really like this, also this reaction of the partner to go to live on Earth.

We can calm our reaction to the Sun by being humble in nature. Being married to a celebrity, it's nice to return to nature and be unrecognized. I see this part of the Myth, I have some idealized field where this horse is just not being bothered. And I think it also speaks to that the Sun naturally gets us to detoxify. So this person, I think you shared it really well in the Myth they go to practice acetism. And that's very cleansing. It's like when we've indulged in too much rich food and we're over stimulated, it's the best thing we can do is come back to nature. The horse is a vegetarian animal. Just eat a clean diet, have a daily routine that's very calm. So I think the partner here is demonstrating a really good way to look after the self.

[00:36:41] Nisha: Yeah. And I think that you bringing this up is important because one of the questions I had was, the Sun illuminates everything. That's its job. And yet how did he not know that there was a shadow wife, in the stead of his original wife? And that kind of got under his nose. So I think that your first point about being close to the Sun creates shadows and that its job is to just, it sticks to its Dharma. It just creates the light. It just does what it's supposed to do. 

[00:37:19] Fiona Marques: That's what I really got from this Myth. Because I think, as women, we're so offended that the Sun in this Mythology doesn't notice the shadow wife, but I think this says a lot about Sun energy and it's really important. So for me, this is around that the Sun is self-contained. It's not noticing things outside of itself in a way, cause it's its own source of fuel.

And I really, it, for me, it helped me tap into that "What if the Sun is really pure"? That's one of the words that we would, we had all of our qualities of the Sun purity, detoxified, truthfulness, sattva, "What if the Sun is really pure and it just cannot expect or anticipate deception"? And I think this is where you and I and all of us listen to this, we've been through the Iron Age. We've been through all the manipulation, all of the betrayal, all of the thieves and the robbery and violence and murders. Like we have seen it all. And we have wised up to how cruel and shocking humans can be. And so it is hard for us to imagine an innocent purity that is not projecting out onto the world in any way that people would be deceptive. It just has no concept that there is anything other than purity. It's like this exploding beam of purity. And what if it is the case that the Sun in that primordial purity, cleanliness, Dharmic, sattvic nature would never imagine that somebody would be deceptive. It's just not in the frame of reference of the Sun. Because the Sun is having such a great time doing its job and being Dharmic, that it's not expecting that anybody else outside of the self is not doing the same. The Sun is imagining that everybody's living their best life. Everybody's contributing their whole being to the Dharmic cause and we're all jamming. I think it's just, that's the mindset. 

So this for me was a real switch moment where, I realize maybe it's our impurity from the Iron Age, we are the ones that projecting that the Sun should have guessed that there would've been deception. 

[00:39:50] Nisha: Until you brought that up, I kept equating the Sun with the ego in terms of just our chart. And just how, in every single chart there's this, there's the Sun and we all have this ego where we're just like, no, even if we're quiet about it, or maybe we might be louder about it. Regardless, every human that is born and embodied has an ego. And so we run over people or we don't really notice through our own egoic desires when we run over people or when we're like, being unkind or whatever it is. And we just keep living our fabulous lives. Our egos don't notice when we are being deceived or when you know something nefarious is going on because why wouldn't ego do that? But to your point, I think the flip of that is that, yeah, the Sun doesn't believe that because it doesn't expect that from anyone. It's just rocking and rolling and its own Dharmic path and it's doing what it's supposed to do. And that's really the end of that. So I thought that was a good way of looking at it.

[00:40:58] Fiona Marques: And I think it tells us a lot about what it's like to have a Sun that's working very well in the chart.

Is that, a pure Sun in the chart is not expecting to be betrayed. It hasn't wised up to all of the, yeah, the manipulations of the ego are all of the suffering and karma that we've all been through.

So let's give the benefit of the doubt here and see whether the Sun is just an innocent purity. Tells us a lot about Sun energy. And the Sun only realize what has happened when one of the children points it out. And this may be a Fiona-ism, so I dunno that this is actually there, but I felt like it was not the first time that the child pointed it out that the Sun was like, "No, of course that hasn't happened". And it took a while to believe, that this deception could have taken place. So the Sun can be so self-contained that in some ways, it doesn't need self-awareness because it's fulfilling its Dharma, it's just, it's in existence. It's not really scanning, for how it's being perceived by other people.

That the Sun needs trusted advisors that will provide a realistic perspective for that very reason. Because it's beaming and doing its job and feeling great. It needs people that are going to give the reality check. And the Sun might say "No" initially to reality (because we have to remember the Sun is Dharmic and idealistic), before they actually see what is happening.

And I think that this is important because cruel planets in the chart, you might get a "No" before you get a "Yes". So in learning to work with the Sun in your own chart or in someone else's chart, if one knows that one is speaking the truth and you get a "No" from that authority figure, it doesn't necessarily mean, stop speaking the truth. We still gotta bring truth to power. They say that, don't they? So I thought that this phase of the Mythology was telling us how the Sun wakes up to this and the important role that people can play in calibrating the reality. 

Then the Sun banishes the shadow and the Sun takes the form of a horse and goes to find the partner. So here, I think some of the qualities of the Sun to pick up on is that the Sun will make sacrifices to correct errors. So it sacrifices the second wife, deals with the Dharma and pays the price. It can modify its form to correct Dharma. So that's a beautiful quality to have. And the Sun can meet people where they are if given enough motivation. So we've talked about that it is in its own world, but it will, it is able to transform into the horse. And, the idea of "no one is left behind". That the Sun is the ruler or the king or whatever, the, it's the Sun at the center of the solar system that protects all of its subjects and all of its planets.

We could imagine if one of, the planets wants to spin off, leave the orbit of the Sun and leave the solar system, the Sun's got this natural kind of, protective comeback. No one's left behind. And this also reminds me of that parental role of the Sun that you know, it's always gonna want to bring the children into the orbit and bring the spouse a partner into the orbit.

[00:44:15] Nisha: It reminds me that each of us, as a human, we have a set of eyes and one body through which to enact our ego and our human lives. That's all we have. So that's really our perspective. That's a very like egoic and not necessarily good or bad, it's just a neutral thing. That's a very egoic perspective, just by the sheer way that we're biologically made. 

And I think that this part helps me remember that our egos need to be checked and that the Sun is emitting all of this light and all of it's brightness, and it has its Dharmic path, but it's also very necessarily part of a larger system where it does not and cannot live in isolation. It wasn't self created. Although the other planets, and although the other people in the orbit of the Sun really rely on that gravitational force, without all of those other actors there, the Sun really doesn't have meaning because then who's gonna be receiving the light that the Sun emits in all of its forms?

So that's what really spoke to me. 

[00:45:39] Fiona Marques: And then. In the Myth as it continues, the Sun forces the partner to return. And then the Sun in terms of what we can learn about the Sun from this Mythology, that the Sun can be so motivated by doing the right thing that the end justifies the means. And we see that in Astrology when Sun has low Dig Bala. So I think it's already telling us a lot about the Sun and how to use it in the chart. The Sun will use its quality of creativity to find ways to bring their lost subjects back home. And importantly, it doesn't feel nice when the Sun is protective.

We can talk about this word protective and it sounds really good and it is a good thing. But we all remember what it's like to be scolded by a parent, when we were a child. And like the example is when the child is, daydreaming itself across, walking across the road and the parent sometimes has to pull the child out of its daydream. It's happy little world that it's in and pull it back to the side of the road and be like, "Don't do that!". And there's no time in that danger situation for the Sun to speak gently and to negotiate and to come into harmony and rapport with the person and affect reality in that way. They just have to, the protective parent just has to come in and stop the child from being harmed. So it's good for us to remember that when we are working with our own Sun in the chart and with other people's Suns that are in our authority figures for us to our chart, that it doesn't feel nice when the Sun is protective. And at the same time, it's an important thing. It's an important role. In all of the things that need to be done in reality, there is a role of protection that occasionally needs to be activated.

[00:47:32] Nisha: Yeah. And I would say here with the role as protector, the Sun had to make sacrifices. And I think that when you are in community, which all of us always are, and our egos always bumping up against each other every single day, and even within different parts of ourselves that you cannot control, you cannot force, you cannot. In order for things to get better for yourself, you cannot, at the end of the day, completely and totally control something outside of yourself.

And so I think with the Sun, throughout the Myth has had to learn several different ways from other people or other characters in the Myth that there is a limit to what others will accept. And, ways in which we need to modify our own behavior to make it better for ourselves and for everyone else.

[00:48:36] Fiona Marques: Yes. And in this Myth, as it continues, the partner resists, and has their own response to the Sun's creativity. And this unique and unexpected response produces good results. And this, for me, as a Vedic Astrologer, talks to me about how malefics teach us that we are stronger and more capable than we think. And it doesn't feel nice when malefics teaching us. But. It so it doesn't feel nice. But actually we are stronger and more empowered at the end of the experience. Whereas when benefics teach us, it can be so easy and gentle that we are not sure whether we did it like inside, whether inside the itself I actually have that, or with the, just the circumstances were so good that it happened and I was there so it looked like I did it.

Whereas malefics let you know that you found it within yourself and you contributed something. You've used your own power. So I thought that this, perhaps for me the least palatable part of this Myth was actually, insightful in how malefics feel in your own chart or when you're interacting with other people's malefics through their chart into your chart. 

When the Sun reveals to the partner that they're not a horse, but actually that they are the Sun, the partner is able to articulate the experience of finding the Sun unbearable. And the Sun finds a way to modify their brightness and share what they don't need for the benefit of all. So they, through a process, they let go of some of their brightness in the Mythology and that becomes shields and spears or discuses or something that are used later on in the Mythology.

So I think that this part of the Myth tells me that the Sun can listen and make changes and that the Sun has more than enough to share. And if the Sun doesn't want to be alone, it will have to share itself professionally outside of the partnership, like to, in order to be close to a very strong Sun partner, you might need that Sun to be really sharing themselves professionally like this Sun, created shields and swords and discuses. We need that so that when the Sun is with the partner, that brightness is already being fulfilled in another area of the chart. So it's not, overpowering to the partner.

But I also think that one of the takeaways for me, really, of this whole Myth is that the Sun needs the partner to share the reality, the partner's reality. And when we find in our lives, people who are a bit self-absorbed in their greatness of what's occurring in their experience of being alive, we can project onto them that they're arrogant and they're not listening. And this Myth is reminding us to have the courage to speak truth to power. So the partner here could have, instead of turning into a horse and the shadow and all of the karma that comes from this Mythology that I hope Nisah and I will get to speak about later as we work our way through these Myths.

Instead of creating all of that karma, the partner could have spoken directly to the Sun before leaving. And this Myth reminds us that is perhaps a quality of that powerful brightness of whoever that is in your chart or where, wherever that is in your chart that have the courage to, to speak the truth, and then the Sun may be able to modify.

It just needs to come into the awareness and that might take effort and you might get an initial no. And keep going. And keep working in partnership with the Sun. Don't give up on somebody's strong Sun because they might need your help to modify and how to actually relate with the reality.

[00:52:43] Nisha: It said that a lot of learning happens like in friction, right? Like you need the rough edges to spark something new that can be beneficial for everyone involved. And I would say that for me, the Sun Myth shows the importance of balance just between our ego itself and the soul, the individual self versus the collective. And that it cannot and does not even want to survive on its own or thrive on its own. 

And then another thing is just, I always take this, and I always have to remind myself that every single person has a Sun. Every single person has these characteristics, regardless, if you're born into this world, you know you, you have a Sun.

And so I think with this is that it reminded me to be gentle with myself because the Sun can be, a harsh thing to deal with. And I again, equate that whether it's in a good placement or not, I feel like, we're humans and we have egos, and our egos are there to serve us, but they're also, they also serve as ways to learn very difficult lessons.

And so to use other aspects of that Myth, the more gentler aspects of that Myth, as a way to have self-acceptance about your ego and to just be kinder to yourself when it comes to being very human. So I would say that was a big lesson for me here.

[00:54:20] Fiona Marques: Yeah, I think that probably goes for a lot of Mythology, doesn't it? Because we kind of project onto Gods that we are, expect them to be perfect. And, all the Mythology that comes to mind for me is about basically Gods and goddesses, misbehaving, and it is to help us with compassion, isn't it? That, it's hard. It's hard being in a human body and it's a very chemical experience, and we get pushed and pulled and into doing various things that perhaps with wisdom we wouldn't do or whatever, but in the spur of the moment, we do them. And these Myths help us realize that can happen to anyone.

And the Sun here, and this Myth certainly takes all of the steps to adapt and modify. And that is for the benefit of all.

[00:55:06] How does the Myth and the imagarey help us remember the qualitities of the Sun?

[00:55:06] Fiona Marques: The story itself helps us to remember things about the Sun being protective, the Sun containing everything, being primordial, being self-contained, being light and bright and confident, being pure, being noble once it found out what it had done, taking action to, to address that straight away.

So I think the beauty of the Mythology is it helps us remember all of these different qualities that is just like a long shopping list of qualities and the Mythology brings that into a dynamic rememberable story.

[00:55:44] Nisha: The visual of the Sun God would traditionally see it's very Vishnu-esque. And it's a very big figure on a chariot. With the charioteer Aruna. Some images, he's looking straight ahead and some images he's looking behind at Suryan. And you have the horse, which it differs from story to story, but it's one horse body with seven horse heads who are usually like, have different colors and it could represent the chakras the different days of the week.

And also I think it was Sanscript prosody, which is just the poeticism of Sanskrit. And also the Sun because he is, very Vishnu-esque in the images in his, in four hands, he's carrying four different things. So the Sudarshana Chakra which is the serrated discus, and it has 108 serrated edges. And initially, what that means is one who has auspicious sight. So initially what I read was that it's for just cutting through any sort of illusion or "B.S." that the god's fit sees fit. And doesn't physically or violently throw it, but just through the mind, releases it. And then I think eventually it turned into a weapon later on as the Myth changed a bit over time and it's continuously spinning very fast. And what I read that in Tamil Mythology, it's called the Circlet of God. And it's also the wheel of time.

And the Sun is also holding the Padma or lotus flower, which is commonly seen. And then you have the conch. Which is, from what I read, it's the Nada Bramha or the primordial sound.

And then there's the gada or the mace.

[00:57:53] Fiona Marques: I really like the chariot driver for the Sun. You can imagine this idea of the dawn coming as the chariot rider pulls the Sun up and the very first ray of the dawn and then all through the height of the day and setting. But the chariot rider is actually not fully able bodied. He doesn't have legs because of a different part of the Mythology. And I really like that element as well, that the Sun is inclusive and that everybody has a role and is essential, everybody can contribute to the auspicious creation or the auspicious returning of life to the Dharmic path.

[00:58:32] Conclusion

[00:58:32] Fiona Marques: What are some of the big takeaways that from this process and from our discussion of the Myth?

[00:58:39] Nisha: I have been on this hunt for years. And you're one of the first professionals. You know your work so well. And you took my concerns, which is what we just laid out very, I don't wanna say seriously, but as a point of something to consider. And so that kind of helped me dig into something that I was avoiding.

Like I couldn't move on with studying Vedic Astrology or studying a lot of things in my culture because they were so terrifying. It didn't really make me feel safe. It didn't make me feel protected. It's been enlivening. It hasn't been all easy, but like what you said earlier at the beginning of this, it's been very nourishing for me and so I, I feel very full on this. 

[00:59:28] Fiona Marques: I'm so pleased to hear that Nisha, and I think this is why these Myths have survived because even in the form that initially we found so unpalatable, but both you and I individually have drawn so much nourishment from engaging and trying to digest this Myth. So it's been very inspiring to me too. It's really changed my u nderstanding of the Sun and how to work with people who I might find overpowering or, inverted commerce, arrogant or authoritative or whatever. It's giving me that compassion and that perspective for what's really going on with that person too. Rather than writing them off and saying, "They should, psychically, empathetically know what I'm going through and modify their behavior accordingly".

I'm realizing that I've got a role to play, to engage with compassion with this person who's just trying to achieve Dharma too. Can't wait to explore some more Mythology. So now what we really want is to hear from all of you guys. What did you think? Have you also struggled sometimes with digesting some of these stories. Did you find this helpful? What would you include? What would you change? We're really enthusiastic about perhaps working our way through the pantheon of at least the planets and seeing what the Mythology might reveal to us. So now let us know what you think. And then until we hear from you and until the next time that I get together with Nisha here, I just wanted to thank so much Nisha for contacting me and creatively prompting this investigation. I've really gained a lot from it. So thank you so much, Nisha.

[01:01:08] Nisha: Thank you.

[01:01:09] Fiona Marques: Yeah. Good. And I look forward to seeing you again soon. And thanks everybody for listening, and look forward to your comments. Bye everyone.

[01:01:18] Nisha: Bye.