S2 Ep2 - Carl Jung Through the Eyes of the Veda with Sachin Sharma
Carl Jung Through the Eyes of the Veda with Sachin Sharma
Carl Jung Through the Eyes of the Veda with Sachin Sharma
[00:00:00] Fiona Marques:
[00:00:00] 0:00 Introduction and Welcome
[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques and I am here today with my colleague Sachin Sharma. Sachin I'd like to welcome you to all of our listeners. Can you say hello?
[00:00:13] Sachin Sharma: Hello, everyone.
[00:00:15] Fiona Marques: Sachin is a colleague of mine from the Asheville Vedic Astrology Apprenticeship course, and I was lucky enough to meet him in my first year working as an astrologer. We both have a real interest, in Vedic Astrology and psychology. And , this podcast has been something that both of us have wanted to record for quite some time because I'd like to see a series of podcasts where we could talk about the link between Jungian psychology and Vedic astrology.
And when I very first met Sachin, and he was working on his first thesis paper for the practicum year of the apprenticeship, and in those papers we write 10,000 words about one person's chart and we go through each house, all of the indications, all of the timing, and in this thesis paper, try to explain to people Vedic astrology in practice through the experience of someone's life.
And of course, Sachin was at the time writing the paper about Carl Young and I had a secret wish that we would get to discuss it together. And today my secret wish comes true. So before we dive into the details of this case study chart, Sachin, can I ask you about how it is that you became interested in Vedic Astrology and also how it is that you became interested in psychology and Jungian Psychology?
[00:01:47] Sachin Sharma: So First of all, thank you so much for doing this, I'm so happy to be here. I'm so grateful to be here. I love, absolutely love having conversations with Fiona astrological conversations. So coming to your question, I think I started in 2014, January.
And it was spontaneous.
And I did it for three months of endless reading, constant reading and getting interested. And that's how I started.
And then it just, one thing leads to another. One teacher led to another, one book led to another. And it just sort of snowballed into this moment, , where I'm like, an iceberg filled with all the astrological information and astrological knowledge.
In 2016, I got the book,
"Man and Symbols", and I read that for two years. That's the only book that I've read, like more than two, three times. And, I carried it everywhere. And 2021 it made sense for me when the thesis paper was required,
I opened his birth details weren't clear, but I found like a good source and used birth information given by his daughter, second daughter. And that was a journey that writing that essay, you're just waking up at night and writing and you're just getting inspired or you're feeling this writer's block and then suddenly you get this landslide of inspiration to write and you're just writing for the next eight hours and for one week you can't write and you're like emotionally frustrated.
[00:03:35] Fiona Marques: It's always really interesting talking to students about their Apprenticeship, 10,000 word papers because they really are an experience. And, , I notice, in this chart that we have Jupiter and Ketu together. We'll, we'll show you the chart in a minute, and I wondered Jupiter, the astrologer there with Ketu certainly had to, to work hard and, and was a very high bar to meet when you want to write an essay about someone so important. And also in this case, he actually towards the end of his life, he wrote an autobiographical self-reflection of his thoughts and dreams.
[00:04:15] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. "Memories, Dreams, and Reflections".
I think the final copy of that book, the final editing was done nine or 10 days before his death.
[00:04:29] Fiona Marques: Gosh, gosh, incredible.
[00:04:32] Sachin Sharma: of let it all out.
He was so vulnerable in that book. He just lets it all out. And it's very rare for psychologists especially the academicians, to be that vulnerable about their own childhood, about their own struggles with everything and their own process. He was so detailed and speaking just about your dreams publicly. It's so private. Something special.
[00:04:58] Fiona Marques: And so then what was it like for you that period of delving into someone's chart? I think each of us, when we are researching someone's chart ... we've spoken about this before, it's a little bit like, you know, diving into the pool of their waters, like swimming in the water of their psyche. Or we've talked about, you know, tasting their life on the taste buds.
But when it's Carl Jung, who obviously we know from his life experience was a very reflective person, very deeply interested in the inner workings of the psyche and of the self interested in the demons, the neurosis, all the things that he had experienced with his clients. What was it like as an astrologer to give yourself the time to completely explore that, including with his own self-reflective work, this book of dreams and memories?
How did it feel? How did you keep your own sanity, your own identity, when one is so deeply diving into another person's chart?
[00:06:09] Sachin Sharma: It makes you feel more connected because you see that, okay, psyche is
a mechanism and it's within everyone so that everyone has a Moon. And he articulates the patterns and the stages of life and everything, the archetypes and stuff, so well, that you sort of feel more connected. You go into this journey, you do another person's karma action, another person's being, and then you, and while you're doing that, there's, there is patterns forming within that. And your pattern and your patterns sort of like find, like some things which are aligning and some things which are so different. And what aligns shows you an underlying theme, the human condition or the nature of the psyche, wherever you're like in alignment with the other person's stuff. That's where you see like "wow, that's psyche there".
I mean, mine is conditioned this way and their's conditioned this way according to their birth charts. But inherently the essence is sort of the same. That was really powerful. It was a, a really beautiful experience.
[00:07:32] Fiona Marques: Yes, I was just going to say that that was beautiful to share that, and I think this is the real value of those 10,000 word papers, although actually there are many things that we learned from that process, but one of them is, because one is given this challenge to write this thesis. One has the time to spend as you just demonstrated with your hands finding that part of the psyche that belongs to the other person and noticing where one's psyche is as well, and, and trying to navigate a, a narrative through there to explain it to other people. So it's a very valuable exercise. And before we dive into the chart, for those people who haven't at all heard of Carl Jung, can you in, in a short manner, tell us about the main, periods of his life and, and his impact on, on Western thought.
[00:08:37] 08:37 Historical Context
[00:08:37] Sachin Sharma: Fundamentally what we need to understand is that Jung was born at a time when the world was moving towards empiricism and psychology was coming to a point where it was becoming a big, um, science. Like it was, it, it, it was gonna start getting funded, more books for being published. And people in power at that time were seeking psychologists. And it was transitioning from psychiatry to psychology.
[00:09:16] Fiona Marques: Would you say that in a broad brush kind of way, previous to this period, people were kind of institutionalized in Europe if they had a mental health issue and it was like, um, there wasn't really seen as a kind of treatment or a therapy or something that a person would move through, it was like, um, a diagnosis, almost a terminal diagnosis.
[00:09:42] Sachin Sharma: Yeah, exactly. And even with Jung, it was the same even until Jung's death. Even. It was institutionalization, over medication or just like medicating and experimenting and seeing like what, what works, what doesn't work.
You can say the east and the spirit of the east,
the unconscious, the non being and stuff wasn't integrated. The spiritual stuff wasn't being integrated completely in the mainstream. Even now, there's a struggle with that, but it's so much better. It was only when R. D. Laing comes into picture that he started, rebelling against institutionalizing and dehumanizing people with mental health problems.
It was even in the seventies, seventies and eighties, it was quite bad. In the nineties there was this whole revolution and it's, that started changing and now there's not much tolerance to even like, which is so good. And we are changing a lot, like on that level.
But on a basic level, we need to know one thing about Jung, that he married metaphysics and psychology and he brought something so subtle into the world of psychology. And he tried to explain everything in a rational, reasonable, but still a little bit of a mystical way. So he was trying to marry science and religion. He was trying to marry, facts and mysticism.
He was trying to marry heaven and Earth in a Taoist way, you can say. He was trying to bring these two worlds because he had a sense of... it's very significant... in 1888, he started researching the occult phenomenon, the hidden phenomenon of the world spirits and all of these things. And in 1890, he starts studying psychiatry.
He sort of like moves away from it. He touches it, freaks out a little bit, moves away from it, moves into a scientific thing, and then it comes back to him. And that's when he has this whole identity crisis and this existential crisis where he starts writing the black books and the red book and stuff.
[00:11:55] 11:55 Description of the Chart
[00:11:55] Fiona Marques: It gives us a real invitation, doesn't it? To, to jump into his chart, what you're saying. So let's take that invitation and for those of us listening, let's describe the chart Sachin, I have it on screen here in, um, North Indian style, right?
[00:12:13] Sachin Sharma: Yeah.
[00:12:13] Fiona Marques: Yeah.
So I'm gonna let you drive. Um, could you tell us where the Ascendant is and then from that work around the first through the 12th house, telling us all the placements of Carl Jung's chart, which we are calling the birth time as the 26th of July, 1875 at 7:32 PM. And then I'll let you describe our, our stars and planets.
[00:12:41] Sachin Sharma: So he was born in Kesswil, Switzerland. He has his Ascendant in Aquarius, Saturn, in Aquarius. So the ruler of the Ascendant is in the Ascendant, Saturn. And from there he has Pisces in the 2nd house. This 3rd house has Rahu in Aries. Along with the 2nd cusp. In the 4th house, he has Moon, Taurus and the 3rd cusp.
In the 5th house, he has the 4th, 5th and 6th cusps in Gemini. His 6th house has Mercury in Venus, in Cancer. His 7th house, has Sun in Leo. And obviously the 7th cusp because the 1st and the 7th cusp are always opposite to each other, and they're just a point. They're not a full house. 8th house has Virgo. 9th house has Libra, 8th cusp, Jupiter and Ketu. So Jupiter and Ketu and Libra along the 8th cusp. 10th house has Scorpio and the 9th cusp. 11th house has Mars in Sagittarius with 10th, 11th, and 12th cusp. So Mars is with 10th, 11th, and 12th cusp in Sagittarius. And 12 houses, is just Capricorn. It's empty.
So that's the 12 Houses of Professor Jung. And, we see, first thing that is the most visible in his birth chart is Saturn and Sun Opposition.
[00:14:20] Fiona Marques: Absolutely.
That's gonna be a really important thing for us to talk about in the layout of this chart. But let's dive into, as your essay does some of these foundational childhood experiences that have perhaps formed this person. And I should say that Sachin's essay on Carl Jung is on your website. Is that right, Sachin?
[00:14:44] Sachin Sharma: It's on my website.
[00:14:46] Fiona Marques: What is your website?
[00:14:48] Sachin Sharma: It's searchinsachin.com. It's www dot s e a r c h i n s a c h i n. Search in sachin dot com. And you can go to the essays tab and you can download the essay for free over there.
[00:15:05] 15:06 Mother
[00:15:05] Fiona Marques: Wonderful. And , one of the things that we notice is there's some interesting dynamics with Carl Young's relationship with his Mother and Father. So let's start with the Mother. Can you tell us a little bit about the importance of his mother in his development? We have the Moon and we have Venus. It's being thirsted in Cancer. The Moon is well placed in Taurus. It's proud, but it's also a painful placement, isn't it? Tell us a little bit about this Moon, Venus and the mother in Carl Young's early life.
[00:15:48] Sachin Sharma: So with Moon and Venus, there's a Parivantara Yoga and it's Dainya Yoga. It gives misery. It's an exchange between 4th and 6th houses. Obviously there can be depth and good things that come out of this misery because Moon is going into Moolatrikona and Venus is just neutral. Plus Venus is helped by the Mercury.
So good things come out of this misery, eventually. The final result leads to a good place somewhat, but it feels that the journey is involving 4th house and 6 th house matters. For the first three years of his life he has Venus Dasha.
Venus is a ruler of the 4th house and it's going into the 6th house. And ruler of the 6th house is going into the 4th house. Moon. This is called a parivartara yoga, which means an exchange yoga. And because 6th house is involved, it's a misery giving yoga, it gives some 6th house related issues.
Because we are considering zero to three years of age... it's very, very important to consider this age and especially consider the relationship with the caregiver, especially the mother. This particular moment, first three years sort of sets the foundation for the rest of the life.
So for example, 4th house is we know the mother. We are considering the mother, and the 4th cusp is also the mother. So we see 4th cusp is in Gemini and the ruler of the 4th cusp, Mercury, is in Cancer also with Venus. So now we have ruler of the 4th house and ruler of the 4th cusp, Venus and Mercury in the 6th house.
So there, when, whenever we have multiple cusps together, things can get really easy for some things and things can get really complicated to judge some things. Complicated because you have to see constantly to look at the house separately in the cusp, separately, because cusp is literally just like a planet. It's just a one particular degree. It's just a spot. It has nothing to do with the rest of the house. The house is the whole Rashi, the whole 30 degrees bhava. That's the house, that's the bhava. And then we have bhāvasphuṭa, which is the cusp.
So his mother, was suffering with mental health problems when he was born.
And 6th house is also the house of aunts. So his aunt and his extended relatives, which is Mercury, helped out his mom and Venus we see is being helped. Both cusp lords, Mercury, and Venus are helping each other. So this is one of the great conjunctions, Mercury and Venus conjunction because both the planets are giving a lot of delight to each other. So any Mercury issue, there'll be Venus to the rescue. Venus related things. For example, the right kinds of nurses, the right kinds of comfort, the right kinds of opportunity would arise for the person to feel some sort of ease, some sort of cushioning in their life.
And, with Mercury would feel that. And then Venus also feels help from Mercury, which is connections, relatives, your friends and your general communication. So there was some starvation of Venus. There was some, some thirst for Mercury where it wasn't feeling the emotional nurturance. There was some instability. There were some delays in getting that nourishment because 6th house is also the house of delays. So he writes in, in "Memories, Dreams, and Reflections". "My illness in 1878 must have been connected with the temporary separation of my parents". He's a very self-aware person, is both his Moon and Sun are doing exceptionally well. They're both moolatrikona. "My illness in 1878 must have been connected to the temporary separation of my parents. My mother spent several months in a hospital in Basel. Presumably her illness had something to do with the difficulty in the marriage". He further writes .... "My aunt of my aunt of mine who was a spinster and some 20 years older than my mother took care of me. I was deeply troubled by my mother being away. From then on, I always felt mistrust when the word love was spoken". That's happening in the sign of Cancer. The field that is going into a state of misery, having the misery yoga is because it's Cancer. It's emotions. It's how we feel. The sign of emotional wellbeing. " The feeling I associated with women was for a long time that of innate unreliability".
So these are the sorts of things which are not easy to speak about when one is talking about oneself and Jung was really courageous and really objective in giving this sort of objective analysis about himself Then he writes... "Later, these early impressions were revised. I have trusted in men friends and been disappointed by them, and I have mistrusted women and was not disappointed".
So he corrected the course and he, he added wisdom to his misery, the misery yoga. So see the final result of the yoga we see Moon becomes Moolatrikona in Taurus, which makes Moon very knowledgeable, very resourceful. And we see Mercury in the 6th house, which is a house of analysis, Mercury in 6th house, Mercury in Virgo makes people very good analysts. So he uses analysis to work out his emotions, to bring wisdom and healing and understanding to what happened, to what must have happened. To reorganize the past. Rearticulate it, reframe it, add wisdom, and heal from it.
[00:22:22] Fiona Marques: Yeah. It's, it's a very powerful dynamic that's going on with this Moon, Mercury, and Venus. One of the things I loved in your essay was a, um, a sentence. You put that with the Moon being proud, this mess of this experience, all of this, what you were speaking about, the damage, the trauma, the hurt, all of those emotional pains.
The "mess" becomes the "message". Or in some ways, the "mess" becomes the "messiah". That Moon so well placed is going to guide the person through this very difficult, painful experience.
[00:23:03] Sachin Sharma: Yeah, and then he writes about a mother complex, mother wound, and all of these theories. So he was really the right, right person to write about these things. Considering he has planets, in the 4th House, in Cancer, especially Mercury and Venus Conjunction, which makes one a writer. If you're Mercury Venus conjunction and it's connected to the Moon, there's a Jaimini Yoga that says you can become a writer.
So it's so connected.
[00:23:36] 23:37 Father
[00:23:36] Fiona Marques: And he certainly was a prolific writer. Incredible amount of work. Okay. So I think that's really interesting. Loads of my students at the moment are studying Dignity and handing in their Dignity essays. And of course here we have the Moon in very good dignity. But that doesn't mean that it saves you from trauma or that it saves you from pain. But it indicates that we are going to learn from that or the opportunity to learn from that is supported. And what a, what a very beautiful placement for what ends up being Carl Jung's life. Now, while we are also here, I wanted to talk about the relationship with the father and the relationship with tradition, religion and all of those kind of the strictness of beliefs or codified thoughts because Venus, we've talked about a lot, is the 4th Lord, but it's also the 9th Lord.
Now we know the 9th Lord is in the 6th house, so it's in that combative kind of enemy space. Tell us a little bit about Carl Jung's relationship with his father and his father's job, and then also other mentors who had that kind of tradition or codified belief system.
[00:24:58] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. It's so interesting because again, Venus is also the 2nd karaka of father. The parents become a very significant theme for him . That's where he derived everything. Like he takes, that becomes a starting point, which leads him into every other part.
We see that Venus is also the 9th Lord, but more significantly he has Jupiter and Ketu conjunction in the 9th house, and not just that... Jupiter and Ketu conjunction in and of itself can make one more conservative with their Jupiter. Jupiter - Ketu specializes in things. Ketu becomes more narrow and focused in things.
And when it's with the planet, it makes that planet more narrow and specialized in what it's doing. So it can be good when one has to focus on one particular thing, but it's not good when one has to consider change. New things entering into the experience. So Jupiter and Ketu in that 9th house plus the 9th Cusp is in Scorpio and ruler of the 9th Cusp, Mars is in Sagittarius. So again, religion, beliefs and stuff in Sagittarius becomes a big influence on him. So consider this 9th house, the field, how you relate to that area of life. For example, 9th house is parents as a unit. 9th cusp is the actual father figure. The actual physical father - concrete manifestation of the father. 9th cusp Mars is with 10th, 11th, and 12th cusp. 10th cusp of work, 11th cusp of gains, recognition, achievements and 12 cusp of, in Jung's case, dreams and liberation and stuff. He was also very much fascinated by ideas of moksha.
So, there's a connection there. We have Jupiter and Ketu's ruler, Venus, in the 6th house as well. And Venus is the second significant of father as per Jaimini Sutras.
[00:27:13] Fiona Marques: A lot of confluence here, don't we?
The same themes. And Young's father was, was a preacher, was a minister.
[00:27:21] Sachin Sharma: He was, his father was a pastor. He was a, he was, he used to give sermons and stuff, but when Jung asked him any existential questions he wouldn't know the answer for. And then Jung writes about how this affected him.
Your father is sort of God to you at that age. It anchors you into things and when your father and their work is speaking of existential matters. And when you ask question regarding that, and then there's no answer.
It does something to you. And then that in later years he speaks of this, he speaks about this and he says that, "That brought me to study religion more, to find the answers and finish sort of my father's work to finish what he had started to find those sort of answers".
[00:28:15] Fiona Marques: And then the combination of the 9th and the 6th, that combative kind of relationship, the 6th house of enemies, I can see some parallels there with that. Not only in that relationship with the father, but then later with other mentors, right? He's got a very famous mentor that he has a very famous falling out with.
So this 9th Lord in the 6th energy, it flows through the chart.
[00:28:39] Sachin Sharma: And that energy is of analysis, like it needs to make sense for them to follow the 9th house. And if it doesn't make sense, if they have sort of a falling out and, this can be a good thing and a bad thing depending on the rest of the chart, like everything else in Astrology.
But, that, that Venus in the 6th house, Venus being the planet of harmony. We would want Mars to be combative. We would want Mercury to be finding loopholes in the rules in the systems, which Mercury's really good at. But we don't want Venus to do that. We, we want we to bring harmony, right? And a diplomacy. But when Venus is in the 6th house, the person is sort of conflict oriented. And , in the sign of Cancer, it usually is due to emotional states that one is experiencing. It's not because there's an actual Venutian thing that they need to deal with. That is lack of nourishment. But in this case it wouldn't be, lack of food. In this case it would be emotional states because that ruler of Venus is going into the 4th of emotions, and that's Moon.
[00:29:59] Fiona Marques: As I'm listening to you there, getting a real sense of Venus, the 4th Lord, having an inner compass of emotional truth, inner values that are maybe not verbal, but some kind of inner knowing. And almost his life path is this journey to discover things that align with that somatic emotional 4th house truth.
Um, and it's not an easy path because he keeps having these combative relationships with the father who's the holder of the knowledge, the religious knowledge, but actually shares no depth, in that belief. And then he has this famous relationship with Freud as well, who was developing quite a codified way of thinking about things.
And although they were great colleagues, weren't they really inspiring to each other? They did come to this point where perhaps Jung's inner compass just couldn't align anymore with that Freud perspective and, and there's that famous disconnection.
[00:31:09] 31:09 Exploring the Unconscious with Rahu and Ketu
[00:31:09] Sachin Sharma: There's something more subtle also going on in his life whic h is related to spirits and religion. That underlying tone wasn't leaving him, and so that would always color his experience later on in life.
And this can be seen by that Jupiter Ketu. Where we see Ketu being a completionary process of a previous lifetime. Is really trying to perfect Jupiter. Is really trying to finish and get done with Jupiterian works, but it's the 8th cusp. Which is a hidden cusp. Which is not evident in his makeup even to himself. But then it's in the, it's in the 9th house of religion and philosophy.
[00:31:53] Fiona Marques: This Jupiter Ketu conjunction, can really set someone up for disappointment in relation to religion or philosophies or organized ways of thought. Let's take our invitation here from Ketu and Rahu and try to say something meaningful about Rahu in the 3rd house, Ketu in the 9th house. So away from tradition and philosophy towards experimentation. And Rahu in Aries. Ketu in Libra. Away from consensus, do you think? And diplomacy and towards "Finding my own way".
Tell us something about the Rahu Ketu placements in Carl Jung's chart.
[00:32:45] Sachin Sharma: So one of the things that we need to consider while interpreting birth charts using only the placements is that when we use only the placements, we can get lost. We can sort of lose track of ... we can use our interpretations that we already have and try to color the person with them. What's more helpful is go to the dasha; see what was going on in their life; stay objective and stay objective with interpretations that you have from your own experience and what the interpretation they've been given by other people's experience.
And when you align the understandings of their life, what was going on in that period. You'll really understand the energy of that planet and the, the quality of that placement. For example, Rahu in Aries, Jupiter-Ketu in Libra.
We have Rahu Dasha starting in 1901, at 26 years, 3 months. He firstly activates the Bhava Yoga of Rahu, which is ruler of the 3rd and the 11th house. And he named this period, actually. He didn't know the Mahadasha system, but he called it an 18 year - this was an 18 year long period of Rahu Dasha - he called it confronting the unconscious.
So Rahu is you confront the unconscious. And, , firstly, which is so important, in 1900 to 1909, he starts working at a mental hospital. So you see Rahu, the ruler of Rahu Mars is conjunct the 12th cusp of physical mental hospitals. A person can have 12 house activation and they can be just at home and having a 12 house experience of isolation, of contemplation. But if the 12th cusp is there, then you can say the person can have an actual physical experience of 12 house things, which can be a far away place by themselves or a distance place where they, they're with others, but they feel like they're alone or an actual physical jail or hospital.
The cusp-ness of things makes the physical appearance more prominent. And it was Mars, right? So Mars is the sort of investigator. The Scorpio side of Mars, wants to go into the danger. It's like one of those detectives who can't leave it alone. They'll keep chasing the case. They can't leave it alone. So Mars can get very obsessed and wants to figure it out. So, firstly, Mars effects 10th cusp which is one's work environment, 11th house institutions and collectives organization. He becomes a part of an organization, this Burgholzli Mental Hospital becomes a major part of his, career. Like major. He meets very significant people here, which leads to some really good things. And 12th house is isolated placements, confinement also is ruled by 12 house. So now we have, Rahu also rules over unusual states of consciousness and ways of being. So all kinds of mental imbalances, disorders, obsessions, schizophrenia, hypomania, anxiety, alter, demonic possessions, what we call all of these things are there. So he writes, "During this phase, the burning question I had was, what actually takes place inside the mentally ill"?
And it's very interesting because, even I believe in this, to understand the nature of water. Try to understand fire. Put out that fire and you'll know what water is. So to understand mental health, if you understand illness, you'll have a true understanding of mental health.
It's the same if you want to know what sweet tastes like, eat something bitter first. The sweetness of sweet things increases when you have a bitter taste. When you have had always people being bad to you, goodness is recognized very quickly, like a slight hint of goodness in your experience, in your relationship with someone becomes very significant, very, and it pops out.
We see the Bhava yoga activate, 3rd lord in the 11th house. 3rd house also gives you hands on experience. And 3rd house is also about communicating, writing, and conceptualizing. 3rd house, if you have many planets in 3rd house, if you have prominent 3rd house, if you have something going on in your 3rd house, 3rd house lord, you'll be good with ideas, concepts, conceptualizing. He started his PhD, in 1902, he got his PhD, right? So his dissertation was on the psychology and pathology of so-called occult phenomenon.
3rd house law in the 11th house gives accolades and certifications and recognition. So 11th house is PhD. So his 3rd house efforts... In beginning of his Rahu Dasha, 1year into his Rahu Dasha, all the efforts that he has made in his Mars Dasha, (which is Rahu's lord). So we need to understand that in his Rahu Dasha is in Rahu Dasha, but even in his Mars Dasha, his Rahu was active because Mars is Rahu's ruler.
So this is a common misconception. People think Rahu is active only during Rahu dasha. Raghu is active even if Rahu's lord is conjunct. For example, your Rahu's ruler is Mercury and it's conjunct Venus. And if you're in Venus Dasha, you still activate your Rahu, because Venus is delighting Mercury and Mercury is your Rahu's Lord.
That planet first and foremost rules over your Rahu, like, it, it, it'll bring the significations of Rahu more, more than anything else. So we see, Mars gave him that hunger, that discipline for those years before Rahu. Mars Dasha finishes, his Rahu activates fully. Rahu brings him into this really complicated environment of a mental hospital, of building his career.
He's 26 years old, a strong person with his Moon, Moolatrikona, very ripe. The people with strong Moon and Suns are very ripe. Like a fruit ready to be plucked. If you have your Sun with Rahu or your Moon with Rahu, you're not ripe to be plucked. You, you're delayed. It'll take you another five or six years, or maybe 10 years to be plucked. Maybe at the age of 42 you'll be plucked. But if you have Sun Moolatrikona, if your Moon Moolatrikona, exalted, all of these things, very ripe. So, these people are very full of energy and full of a personality, which seeks to be expressed into the world.
So we see in Rahu/Rahu/Jupiter, (Jupiter is also the 11th lord going into the 9th house). So it's a double indication. We need more indications when we seeing something so significant as a PhD or a big recognition of some sort. We need to see multiple indications. So the third level of Dasha with Rahu/Rahu/Jupiter, he got the certification.
And Rahu Dasha also gets him married, right? So on 14th February, 1903, he marries Emma Rauschenbach. And he gets so lucky with his marriage. So this was in Rahu/Rahu/Mercury. At the time of her marriage, she was a second richest heiress in Switzerland.
[00:41:13] Fiona Marques: So it was a very, fortuitous combination financially for Jung.
[00:41:17] Sachin Sharma: It's interesting, this word, heiress. At the time of her marriage, she was the second richest heiress, which is a Sun in Leo thing to say. 7th cusp. 7th house. Sun in Leo. Moolatrikona. It's a proud Sun. So she was from a proud, rich, powerful family with unlimited resources. Being rich in Switzerland was being really rich.
[00:41:44] Fiona Marques: Which allowed him then to research and discover and allow his natural 1st and 12th house lord to really explore that space of the unknown, of moksha, of things from distant cultures. Because financially he was very secure, which is not the case often for people who are...
[00:42:04] Sachin Sharma: With Freud especially. Freud had his Moon and Saturn in the 8th house of other people's resources. So he had a massive struggle for a very long time with finances.
[00:42:16] 42:16 Saturn Sun Opposition and the Age of Aquarius
[00:42:16] Fiona Marques: We have just a few moments left and there's two questions that I wanna ask you.
Saturn, the first and 12th Lord, what can we see?
[00:42:24] Sachin Sharma: So, Saturn 1st Lord in the 1st house, firstly gives a resilient body. So it gives a strong body. It's 10th from the Moon so it gives one of those careers where one has decided, and a path that one walks consistently. It's Saturn, so the person walks it very slowly.
But Saturn Sun opposition, gives him trouble with his public life. Saturn Sun opposition often gives experiences of big disrespect, like disrespect to one's sense of self.
So it's sort of almost considered an abuse towards Saturn. His Sun doesn't get that, like his Sun's seventh house stays intact. So eventually you see the Moolatrikona Sun comes out on top and he succeeds. But his 1st house career - Sun is really taking down that Saturn to minus 40 points in his Lajjitaadi Avasthas.
So he sort of has these moments where he is working just for the sake of working. There are moments, he's written at, at times where he is like, I'm just, I have no desire to take any sessions to take any clients, but I'm just going on and on. I'm just doing it. So that's very Saturn theme.
And Saturn activates in 1935. So we need to understand what happened between 60 to 79 (years of age). That's where he experienced sorrows of all kinds, people he loves started to pass away or started distancing themselves . But he became like this wise old man. With like a lot of knowledge and stuff. So having just Moon, Saturn, Sun in angles makes these three planets very active.
But he had a very strong body, like his is very good, Sun is very good, and his Saturn is very, very good. So he lived long. I think he lived till the age of 87 I think. I'm
not sure. And he lived quite a robust sort of life.
[00:44:30] Fiona Marques: mmm ... and was productive right till the end. Yeah.
And so then my final question is around, I'm quite fascinated about this timing in Western culture where it seems like out of nowhere there's an openness in Western culture to explore the, the mind, the psyche. And we have this development of psychology. And at the same time, we have this interest in what is inside the atom that what is beyond the material perception that we, we touch and feel.
And Carl Jung is kind of born in the cradle of this time. What do you see as the indicators in this chart for that, this chart being at that right time to really open the West to this journey. We haven't had a chance to speak about it, but Carl Jung brought in a lot of Eastern ideas or a lot of non-Western ideas into psychology.
This idea of archetypes, the mythology from different cultures, the dreams, shamanism, alchemy. There's so much that we haven't had a chance to speak about, but what do you see as being unique in this chart that's helped him be the man of the moment for that period of time?
[00:45:51] Sachin Sharma: Firstly, I think, it's the Sun and the Moon, the strength of the Sun and the Moon. And there are so many complicated, complex factors such as his father being a pastor, his mom having mental health issues, his questions arising from his father's work.
And then his mother, because a child always gets deeply affected by their mother's wellbeing, and their mother's desires. The mother's unconscious projections upon the child.
And then having the strength. The Mercury Venus conjunction in Cancer with a strong Moon, which is uplifting both Mercury and Venus, sort of putting them into Moolatrikona state in a way. He is just so ripe. When the opportunity arose, I think at some point he was gonna do zoology and then he pivoted into psychiatry. I think. So, I think something like that happened. So he was just ripe to exert all of this energy on something.
And it's very important if you just go back to your own Sun and Moon of , of your 0 to 3 years, 0 to 9 years, 0 to 12 years actually, until you activate your sort of Venus development years, you'll see, if you get a good analyst or you, if you good at self analysis, you'll see your own parental stuff. You're working that out through your work in a very subtle way. And it can be not just something bad, it can be something good, something creative. It can be you being a traveler, adventurer.
My mother was always at home. She was never wanting to leave the house, and one day she left and she was the happiest in the world. I've never seen I, when I was six years old, I've never seen my mother dance with joy, and that always stayed with me. So I always wanna leave the home and travel and see and find. So that's how our narrative builds up.
His own Sun and Moon stuff that was going on and then him having the planets in Rahu Ketu the 3rd 9th axis, which always brings one to communication of ideas and higher thinking, higher thoughts. And it's just constant philosophy, religion and communicating them. Practicing what you preach. 3rd house is practice, physical practice, hobbies and interests. Hands. 9th House being preaching. So those sort of things plus his space, his presence in, in a collective environment of Switzerland, Germany being in the heart of a place where psychology is being developed.
They had a lot of resources. They had gone through those. Plus there was this whole build up with divorce from religion. So there was 19th century philosophers who had discovered, who wanted to excavate a lot of eastern stuff. 18th century philosopher, like Max Mueller, this, that they all got so much of Eastern stuff.
So their libraries and their colleges had these really well written translations of Indian texts, Chinese texts, like "Secret of the Golden Flower", something a taoist text that Jung, wrote a commentary on.
[00:49:01] Fiona Marques: You could read these translations and I, I'm also struck by Saturn here in Aquarius. Has that, that link to communal resources that you were speaking about, that Aquarian space and the solving problems that will heal the whole commune. You know, that interest in really giving back to the, all through the one, the one and the all being a continuum rather than a, than a separate, um, conflictual arrangement. Um, and then the first Lord in the 12th, Lord, being there in an Aquarius, I, I think that talks about all of those far away places being really important to the self.
[00:49:42] 49:43 Farewell and Conclusion
[00:49:42] Fiona Marques: So, such a powerful and beautiful chart, and I can only highly recommend to everyone listening to please go download the thesis paper because there are, you wouldn't believe within speaking for an hour but there's so many things that we didn't get to touch on and Sachin has done a beautiful job of contextualizing them in that paper. So I hope you will go have a look at that paper.
And I hope Sachin that you will join me again soon for another episode here on the Vedic Astrology Podcast to delve even more deeply into Psychology, Jung, some archetypes, who knows what we might talk about!
[00:50:19] Sachin Sharma: Thank you so much. I love it. I'm, I'm, I'm really excited to be back soon with everyone chatting to everyone with Fiona.
[00:50:28] Fiona Marques: Thank you Sachin, and thank you for your great work on this paper. And thanks for everyone who's listening. And I'm already looking forward to being with you next time. Till then, take care. Bye bye everyone.